I'm not sure what to do really, i know i don't want knock retard but other than that i don't know what im looking at can anyone give me some idea of what would be perferable numbers, long term % and short term % and whatever else

how do i tell if im running rich or lean with this?

Sorry this is the first time i've tried this and feel stupid looking at the information

One other thing im not sure if i was reading it right

but there is
long term
and short term

one of them at part throttle was -# while the other was between 20-30%, then at WOT the one that was negative went to 0 and the other went to 10.6

<small>[ November 13, 2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: jacs ]</small>

 

Alright i went and done some runs. here are my results
at idle
short term- keep jumping from 0 to -2.34 longterm 0\
short term- keep jumping from 0 to -1.56 longterm 0

at wot short term on both was 0 and longterm on both was at 25


there was no knock retart, spark was around 28-31, my o2 values seemed low, .79 or so was highest and it started droping as i got higher in the rpm range

the o2 values are very hard to look at while driving

 

you need to get atap and start logging your runs. the only way to tune the car is to get an average. some people say a 20 minute ride some say less. the predator only gives out real time data, so there is no way to get a average. you need to watch the ltrims at part throttle and the o2 sensor voltage at wot. do a search on atap and you will find out some very helpful info.

 

I have the predator also and am having the same problems. I think I need a friend to beat up my car while I read this thing. It tells me that my timing is at 40.9 while cruising and at WOT it'll say around 32*. How do you know you aren't getting knock retard? I can't find that anywhere on the programmer. As far as the .79 O2 reading, it sounds rich.

 

The predator tool has some great functions, but the autotap is still neccessary to accurately read the live data. YOu can't look at the predator and guess. Atap will allow you to look at every sensor and record the data for looup on your computer after driving. Maybe the predator designer will add in a recordable function??? I made that recommendation to them. Maybe if more people say the same thing, it will happen.

 

To my knowledge there are no plans for data logging on the Predator. And while this would be a nice feature, it's not really necessary for tuning. What IS necessary for accurate tuning is a chassis dynamometer and a wideband 02 sensor plugged into the tailpipe. Tuning the Predator blindly is still pretty simple though. If you live where you can get 93 pump gas, then advance the timing all the way to 10% (2 degrees) and lean the fuel out to 1% (.15). If you can only get 91 (like me) then set the fuel all the way to 5% lean and leave the timing at 0. I helped a friend do all his beta testing on the Predator. This is the formula we came up with after several dyno runs using my LE. The first configuration is what BfB came up with after numerous dyno runs at his shop where 93 is available at the pump.

Knock retard is not installed on the early versions. You can send the unit in and have the updates performed but it really isn't necessary at this point, especially if you are stock or only have bolt on's. If you can dyno the car then that will always be your best bet. It will clearly show a drop in power when the KR kicks in. And the A/F will become erratic as well. It's OK for the timing to be up at 40 degrees while cruising and 32 at WOT. The computer is compensating for various throttle positions and adjusting the timing accordingly. The engine can handle more timing at various TP's depending on air temps, fuel, etc. So don't worry too much about those numbers. Same goes for the 02's. Those numbers will vary quite a bit depending on the conditions. That's why that wideband 02 can be so beneficial on the dyno. Your LTFT's (long term fuel trim) measure A/F over an extended period of time. And the STFT's (short) measure over a shorter period. And I believe open loop (WOT) sends the STFT's into a dormant mode. And I'm not sure the LTFT's are awake either. But I could be wrong about that. Anyway, hope that helps to clear things up a bit. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

Well i have a prob. i can't get a wideband done, and i can't get autotap (the reason i bought the predator) I ran my car some today and for the most part my car was running with the following

idle lterm was negative 3.xx and so was the second bank, my sterm was like negativ3e 1.xx something...

at part throttle and wot my sterms are always at 0, while my long term are always at 25 for bank 1 and 22 for bank 2. that is positive numbers

My timing was at about 30 for the most part

My knock at WOT never got above .83 at WOT, MY O2 bank 1 sensor 1 was at about 685 while the other bank was near 750... of course this is me just looking down while down ride open runs and seeing in about what area it stays, this was done on about a 40 minute drive with a few WOT runs, 10-20 or so....

The knock retard should be available for upgrade through the internet soon..

 

anyone?