Texas Terminator

well said wes!

Larry

iTrader: (4)

You guys have me convinced. No LS1 Edit for me!

miner_49

Yo, Wes. Thanks for the condescending post.

It not that we don't have a desire to learn. We just feel that the educational material provided is lacking. Most of use understand that we have alot to learn before we can tune our cars. We just expected a better starting point than the manual gives.

I didn't want detailed instructions on how to tune for a particular cam. I wanted some information on what the PCM uses the tables for and what are the effects of changing them. I think this is a very reasaonble expectation. Unfortunately, instead I had to waste my time searching all over the place for the answers to my questions.

I have a MSEE and from my own experience designing products, I have an opinion of what constitutes an exceptable level of documentation. This falls far short. When I bought EFI Live Pro, I found the documentation much more informative and it is a complicated tool that costs less.

Some of you think this is some sort of pissing contest. "I figured it out without a manual so why can't you?" It seems to me that you have forgotten the difficulties that you had in learning how to use LS1edit. Or maybe it is a case of wanting us to suffer as you did? This is like giving a book explaining what numbers are and then sending a child out to learn to do arithmetic on their own.

This ends my rant. The opinions expressed here are my own and thus are the only ones that matter. So there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ February 25, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: miner_49 ]</small>

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

There are alot of really good posts in this thread. But, what it comes down to is that the folks at Carputing have decided that they are not going to fill the role of Teacher.
This really is too bad, because if Carputing authored a more comprehensive manual, THEY'D SELL MANY MORE UNITS!
"You can't write a decent manual because of liability issues, because it's not possible, or a myriad of other excuses, blah, blah, blah", IS A COPOUT!!
What's the difference whether I learn from school, LS1tech.com, etc? The difference IS that I could have understood it direct "from the horse's mouth"! And, in this case, the horse's mouth is Carputing.
When paying $550, I expect the most comprehensive manual ever written on "the subject". (Whew!! I'm taking a long, slow, deep breath here. My heart is a' workin'! Does anyone know CPR?) Anyway, on with the uh,...discussion.
Let's face it, there are lots of "grey" areas in life. And, tuning for high performance is no exception. However, from what I've seen of LS1edit,there is a large gap between what you get, and what you should be getting!
Thanks for your kind attention...gMAG

Cal

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure if this point was brought up in all these posts, but Carputing would have nothing to gain by improving the manual because they already sell as many units as they can produce. They would only have more liability for miss-use. It would be like writing a user's manual on how to use a hammer; there's too many variables.

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

I really don't choose to "hammer" anything. But, if Carputing will lend me a hand, by supplying a decent guide to perform a tune-up (possibly in conjunction with a company like Autotap), I would be mighty grateful.
Because there ARE people who understand the interactions of LS1edit, there should also be a competent guide.
Variables? Of course there are! Any electronic gizmo ever made has variables. And, then, those experiences/variables are put down on paper.
Procedure CAN be transmitted by one who knows how to teach.

Predator

Excuse my digression, but how come so many people bitch about the cost of LS1 Edit, but seem to have no problem shelling out the same amount for a hit-or-miss mail order tune. Think of it this way: you go to Ed Wright, shell-out $500.00; he locks your pcm, doesn't give you a proper tune, plus you learn nothing in the process. I would have preferred a more comprehensive user's manual, but not because LS1 Edit is so expensive. Think about all you get for the price of one tune: unlimited tunes, software, plus a user's manual.

Bink

Basically this problem is evident in all areas of education. There are alot of people out there who want cookbook solutions. Personally I'd love a cookbook/cookiecutter solution to most things!Unfortunately as system complexity increases so do solutions....they require thinking. In order to properly use LS1Edit you have to have a basic grasp of alot of info ( engine function,auto tuning,software integration,software use,sensor and sensor function etc.etc). Alot has changed since I last- 30 years- actively participated in motor building and tuning!!! One thing hasn't -most people want an easy cookbook answer....That's what Pro-Tuners are for.The integration and use of all this info is not easy or simple. Actually, I'm sure it takes a decent amount of intelligence (hope I don't start flames with that comment)Just my $0.02.

gMAG

iTrader: (1)

Guys, Didn't mean to get too heavy on you (or the folks at Carputing). I've done lots of teaching, for many years, and can vouch for the reasons why "cookbook" solutions don't work.
But, I've also seen the look on people's faces when they begin to understand issues because the context is delivered in a certain way.
There's nothing like the possibility of unlimited tuning, of self-learning, and ownership! I believe there are many fence straddlers who feel this way, and would opt to buy, if given some reassurance by way of clearer direction.
Personal aptitude and pre-experience are definite variables in this equation. No one can ever bridge all the gaps. However, the information supplied with EDIT leaves me and many others wanting for more.
Thanks..