Hey, i heard that when you go in for emmissions on these cars, they do a test on your computer and if you werent running cats, you will not pass. Is this true? I have hooker long tubes and true duals and i was gonna just throw the stock exhuast on for emmisions. Thanx!

 

Yes, here in Illinois, most 96+ OBDII cars get the OBDII scan. I myself have taken it and passed. Not all states do this test yet though.

As long as have NO DTC's/Pending DTC's in your PCM and all your readiness monitors are still enabled (I.E. you haven't turned your EGR or AIR system off to avoid the codes because you removed the hardware), you shouldn't have a problem.

Even without cats, as long as the system is operating normally via O2 simms, the only way you could fail is by a visual inspection. Now while the incompetent staff at the test facility may not get on their hands and knees and try to get under our cars to see if the cats are there, chances are, if it's a "tad" bit louder than stock (as mine is) you're gonna draw the attention of every employee in the place and having them checking it all out, which could lead to one of them looking underneath.

Now, if your car should not pass the OBDII test, currently it is YOUR choice to put it on the rollers and actually have it sniffed (it is NOT sniffed during the OBDII test). At this point I would probably decline if I were in your shoes and go fix my PCM issues in order to try to pass the OBDII test next time.

However, I believe the window for opportunity for you to electively take the IM240 roller (sniffer)test after failing the OBDII test is running short. Pretty soon, I think the Illinois EPA will be enacting the backup IM240 roller test automatically if you fail the OBDII test.

 

Does reseting your PCM(fuse style not scan tool) erase all engine codes?

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CMNTMXR57:
<strong>

However, I believe the window for opportunity for you to electively take the IM240 roller (sniffer)test after failing the OBDII test is running short. Pretty soon, I think the Illinois EPA will be enacting the backup IM240 roller test automatically if you fail the OBDII test. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, this is not the case. After January 1, 2004, the IM240 roller test will no longer be offered to '96 and up cars that receive the OBDII scan. If you fail the scan, you MUST correct the issue causing the scan failure. A roller test will not be offered or given to a '96 and up car.

This info is directly from the IL EPA's website:

Phase 1 from July to October 2002: 1996 and newer vehicles that pass a gas cap pressure test and an OBD test will pass the emissions test. An exhaust test will not be performed when the vehicle passes the OBD test. If the vehicle fails the OBD test, it will be given a second chance to pass by receiving an exhaust test. In this phase, vehicles that fail the emissions test can be repaired to pass either the OBD test or the exhaust test.

Phase 2 from October 2002 to January 2004: Owners of 1996 and newer vehicles will be able to decide whether to repair their vehicle if it fails an OBD test, or to be given a second-chance exhaust test. In this phase, vehicles that fail the emissions test can be repaired to pass either the OBD test or the exhaust test.

Phase 3 beginning January 1, 2004: The emissions test for most 1996 and newer vehicles will consist of a gas cap pressure test and an OBD test. In this phase, vehicles that fail the OBD test must be repaired to pass the OBD test.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bads02Z28:
<strong> Does reseting your PCM(fuse style not scan tool) erase all engine codes? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but it also resets all the readiness moniters. Incomplete moniters will also cause you to fail, so after resetting your PCM you will need to complete the OBD drive cycle before your PCM will again show a complete status.

 

I do emission testing in Ga. Here we do OBD II testing on 96 up cars/light trucks. There is no visual for cats.96-99 you can have 2 not ready's and pass. On 00 & up can have only 1 not ready & pass. No dyno's for any 96 & up, must pass on OBD II or can apply for a waiver if they spend 672 *indexed yearly* to repair and still will not pass. This program seems to update yearly.

 

[-QUOTE]Originally posted by ss rally red:
<strong>96-99 you can have 2 not ready's and pass. On 00 & up can have only 1 not ready & pass. </strong>[/QUOTE]

Here it is two not ready for '96 to '00 and 1 for '01 and up. Guess it varies state to state...

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CMNTMXR57:
[qb]

However, I believe the window for opportunity for you to electively take the IM240 roller (sniffer)test after failing the OBDII test is running short. Pretty soon, I think the Illinois EPA will be enacting the backup IM240 roller test automatically if you fail the OBDII test. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, this is not the case. After January 1, 2004, the IM240 roller test will no longer be offered to '96 and up cars that receive the OBDII scan. If you fail the scan, you MUST correct the issue causing the scan failure. A roller test will not be offered or given to a '96 and up car.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's sorta what I said! Re-read. I just didn't know when that window to electively take it ended.

Remember, I took my OBDII test the week it came out, so I was one of the first. That was a LONG time ago.

<small>[ March 30, 2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: CMNTMXR57 ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong> [-QUOTE]Originally posted by ss rally red:
<strong>96-99 you can have 2 not ready's and pass. On 00 & up can have only 1 not ready & pass. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here it is two not ready for '96 to '00 and 1 for '01 and up. Guess it varies state to state... </strong>[/QUOTE]

Yes, it does vary from state to state. It even varies from one county to the next in the same state. Some counties don't even require emissions testing, while others in the same state may be very strict. We do the OBD2 link-up here, as well as the visual for cats.

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Cal ]</small>

 

EPA requires what and how many tests that need to be done within 3 level classes of air quality a county has been defined as thus one county may be required to do only one test where the next county over has been defined as having dirtier air and have to run, I/M 240, treadmill, and tailpipe tests.
The getting wacked the hardest are passing I/M tests but failing visual.
Being IM testing was new last year most test stations were not up to speed and many cars were passed whereas EPA now demands smog stations get to school or their smog testing license is not renewed so more cars will be failing.

Some areas as here in Ca, if stopped by the cops, can demand hood be opened and officer also looks for visual failures. One case of 1 of my customers he was caught speeding, cops indepth checked his car out and demanded the car be brought back to stock or his license will not be renewed.

If this is thought to be bad, wait,
in 2005 OBD-III is to take effect and the PCM has transmitters where transponders are being installed along the road and as you pass them (even in a crowd of cars) your PCM is commanded to transmit through the air and everything from condition of smog tests to what your max speed was and will be pulled over for a I/M 240 tests by a cop or fined via US mail.
This EPA testing has been going on since 1996 with help from GM and even tofay GM is spying on cars using Onstar systems.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Team ZR-1:
<strong>

Some areas as here in Ca, if stopped by the cops, can demand hood be opened and officer also looks for visual failures. One case of 1 of my customers he was caught speeding, cops indepth checked his car out and demanded the car be brought back to stock or his license will not be renewed.

If this is thought to be bad, wait,
in 2005 OBD-III is to take effect and the PCM has transmitters where transponders are being installed along the road and as you pass them (even in a crowd of cars) your PCM is commanded to transmit through the air and everything from condition of smog tests to what your max speed was and will be pulled over for a I/M 240 tests by a cop or fined via US mail.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Was the cop a trained emissions inspector? If not, then he was not qualified to determine what is or is not legal emissions equiptment for street use. I have done some research into Cali proceedures, one tactic used to combat street racing in Cali is to bring state emissions inspectors to racing busts and have them inspect the cars on site handing out "fix it" tickets that must be complied with. The cops, however, are not qualified or authorised to preform these inspections themselves. If a cop suspects that you may have an illegal emission setup, they may also force you to appear at an emissions test center within a specified period of time. This is all cali only law as I have investigated. Cops can not be performing emissions inspections without proper training, perhaps some counties in Cali have provided that? This I am unaware of though.

Doing roadside IM240 tests will not happen. That would be impossibile. Like I said, with that crazy liberal cali law though, being forced to a test center within a certain period of time based on suspected or determined emissions failure is however possibile.

Also, suspected emissions violations do not endanger an officers' life. They can not legally search your engine bay during a roadside traffic stop without your permission unless they first get a warrent. At least that is the case in IL. I guess anything is possibile in cali though. That state is nuts with laws. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />

OBD III has way too much Big Brother involvement. The EPA needs to be put in their place. I think we need to organize very large law suit if they start monitoring us as we drive. That is violating our rights, and can not be tolorated. Will we sit back like sheep, or beat down the EPA like we should have years ago? I vote, beat them down. I have no use for the EPA personally, they end up doing more harm than good.

 

2 years ago when I brought up I/M 240 smog testing was coming most of the responses were it was not going to happen to them.

As to cops being trained, not so, all they have to do is look at the car parts, mostly like headers and demand to see the CARB number, no number, thats the name of that tune. CARB publishes on their website what vendors, what products have passed CARB tests and received a CARB number and what that number is, thus any cop just has to look at that list to know if the named part vendor ever even had their products CARB tested.

Yes they can pull cars over CARB has already passed the law and with I/M 240 needing nothing more then a certified EPA scanner that is required to do I/M 240 tests it is a simple and quick process that can be done as easy as being pulled over to get a speeding tcket.

Ca CARB has been testing this for multi years now and more can be read about this here :

CARB abd OBD-III for 2005

So the question is not if it will happen but will it become in effect in 05 or 2006.

Also interesting in France they are using Vsat to query car's speed and issue a speeding ticket from that collected data.

 

CARB numbers only apply to CA emissions. A CARB number is not required in other states. Passing visuals without CARB numbers has been going on for years in states outside cali. As far as the cops go, maybe you have an issue with them in cali but that's not the case everywhere. Pass/fail of emissions is determined by an EPA center only here in IL, not the local police.

IM240 testing could not be done roadside by cops without a warrent unless the owner/driver submits to the test. Same rules that apply to search of a vehicle without owner consent. Cops also can not be popping your hood without consent or a warrent, unless the laws are changed. In most states emissions are not a big enough concern for law makers to address in that manner.

Thank god this is not france.

Cali is a messed up place for emissions. The rest of the country is very different for the most part. Some states don't even have testing.

 

Well it's all about money,... of course! States that have high air pollution have the option to take measures to reduce the levels of pollution. By implementing a mobile emission source testing. Area's that have poor air quality are always highly populated, duh. States that do mobile emission source testing get MORE federal hiway funds for participating in the testing. The amount of money received is determained in part by the type of testing conducted. It is the least at bottom of the barrel ppm/% testing then to limited dyno testing & up to the preffered FTP simulation(fedreral test procedure done to new cars)IM-240 testing. + there is more offered if air quality improves. Here in Illinios the state has sub-contracted envro-test for mobile source emission testing. They bought most of the dyno & gas spectrometers from texas e/m program that bush dumped when he was the gov. Here in Ill. they're getting large F.H.F. for their programs,& who gets screwed? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> The large industral statinary emission sources are just as bad but have the cash to keep 'em of their backs. 30% of greenhouse gases come from methane that cows fart every day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> They need to put some kind of catalist on that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Team ZR-1:
<strong>If this is thought to be bad, wait,
in 2005 OBD-III is to take effect and the PCM has transmitters where transponders are being installed along the road and as you pass them (even in a crowd of cars) your PCM is commanded to transmit through the air and everything from condition of smog tests to what your max speed was and will be pulled over for a I/M 240 tests by a cop or fined via US mail. This EPA testing has been going on since 1996 with help from GM and even tofay GM is spying on cars using Onstar systems. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um... Where are the black helicopters? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

I remember back when OBDII was about to be rolled out. This would've been the early to mid 90's. Everyone felt doom and gloom was about to embark upon us and that Big Brother would be knocking on our doors with their new way to monitor engine functions. Well, I think we can safely say, that OBDII cars are one of the best things to happen to performance tuning! Not only does it give us lots of parameters to monitor that were never an option before, but a simple SES light told us a mod we did didn't work or you needed to adapt it to work someway somehow.

Now enter OBDIII, once again everyone is screaming doom and gloom because big brother will be able to monitor in real time what our engine management system is doing. While that may be the case, I think some of you are a little more paranoid than you need to be.

Do you HONESTLY believe that your local law enforcement constabulary whether it be State, County, or Local Municipality is going to have sufficient funding to train, invest in the equipment to monitor, then enforce any monitoring they may get on your car? I don't think so! They don't have the time, money or resources now to do everything they already have to do, let alone one more task.

OBDIII, My Onstar, the Little Black boxes under my seat don't bother me in the least.

Then again, I've got nothing to hide.

 

Im lucky, live in Minnesota..We had emissions checks about 5 years ago uintil the state shitcanned it. Made no sense at all, the cars that failed sniffer tests could and would be exempted if the owner could prove they spent the majority of there time in a surbuban setting ( non metro) or the repairs were going to cost over x amount. THe state deemed the the program a bust and has since sold all itsa facilities and equipment. Makes it nice for peole like us with big cammed cars! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />