Logging wideband with no EIO?
well i played with it some tonight... it seems to poll it full speed... or damn close to it.. and it was really easy to make a custom AFR and a Custom AFR % error histogram...
now i just have to get my wideband and tie it all together...
btw, im using the AC pressure as my current input, but i briefly tested the gas tank pressure and gas level ones... interestingly enough, i found that the gas level has a constant 5V output, and gets pulled toward ground by whatever you hook it too... so if you wanted to hookup another sensor that goes to ground, for example a temp sensor.... you could easily go thru that... im considering using it for a pre-intercooler temp gauge... then i can log intercooler efficiency...
kinda neat.
now i just have to get my wideband and tie it all together...
btw, im using the AC pressure as my current input, but i briefly tested the gas tank pressure and gas level ones... interestingly enough, i found that the gas level has a constant 5V output, and gets pulled toward ground by whatever you hook it too... so if you wanted to hookup another sensor that goes to ground, for example a temp sensor.... you could easily go thru that... im considering using it for a pre-intercooler temp gauge... then i can log intercooler efficiency...
kinda neat.
Just some information, not trying to take away from this thread or discourage this method at all...
If you have a wideband that has a very erratic input, tying it to the PCM's input will not help smoothen your input.
Lets say you are scanning at 10 frames per second.
If you tie your input to the PCM, each frame you get back will report the value of that particular input as the PCM sees it. The PCM will not filter the input or average it out over the time it took between the current frame and the previous frame. If your wideband output is smooth, than this will not be an issue.
Also note that not all PCM inputs are updated as fast as the scanner polls the PCM. When the software polls the PCM, the PCM reports the last known value for that input as it is stored. That value could be 1 second old.
If you tie your input into our EIO interface, typically you will have an average of 4 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame. If your wideband output is very erratic, this averaging of values will help smoothen it out.
If you are on a 99+ LS1 vehicle and you are scanning at 5 frames per second, typically you will have an average of 8 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame.
This is just some helpful info. I think a lot of these ideas are definately very neat.
- Keith, HP Tuners.
If you have a wideband that has a very erratic input, tying it to the PCM's input will not help smoothen your input.
Lets say you are scanning at 10 frames per second.
If you tie your input to the PCM, each frame you get back will report the value of that particular input as the PCM sees it. The PCM will not filter the input or average it out over the time it took between the current frame and the previous frame. If your wideband output is smooth, than this will not be an issue.
Also note that not all PCM inputs are updated as fast as the scanner polls the PCM. When the software polls the PCM, the PCM reports the last known value for that input as it is stored. That value could be 1 second old.
If you tie your input into our EIO interface, typically you will have an average of 4 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame. If your wideband output is very erratic, this averaging of values will help smoothen it out.
If you are on a 99+ LS1 vehicle and you are scanning at 5 frames per second, typically you will have an average of 8 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame.
This is just some helpful info. I think a lot of these ideas are definately very neat.
- Keith, HP Tuners.
Originally Posted by Magnus
Just some information, not trying to take away from this thread or discourage this method at all...
If you have a wideband that has a very erratic input, tying it to the PCM's input will not help smoothen your input.
Lets say you are scanning at 10 frames per second.
If you tie your input to the PCM, each frame you get back will report the value of that particular input as the PCM sees it. The PCM will not filter the input or average it out over the time it took between the current frame and the previous frame. If your wideband output is smooth, than this will not be an issue.
Also note that not all PCM inputs are updated as fast as the scanner polls the PCM. When the software polls the PCM, the PCM reports the last known value for that input as it is stored. That value could be 1 second old.
If you tie your input into our EIO interface, typically you will have an average of 4 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame. If your wideband output is very erratic, this averaging of values will help smoothen it out.
If you are on a 99+ LS1 vehicle and you are scanning at 5 frames per second, typically you will have an average of 8 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame.
This is just some helpful info. I think a lot of these ideas are definately very neat.
- Keith, HP Tuners.
If you have a wideband that has a very erratic input, tying it to the PCM's input will not help smoothen your input.
Lets say you are scanning at 10 frames per second.
If you tie your input to the PCM, each frame you get back will report the value of that particular input as the PCM sees it. The PCM will not filter the input or average it out over the time it took between the current frame and the previous frame. If your wideband output is smooth, than this will not be an issue.
Also note that not all PCM inputs are updated as fast as the scanner polls the PCM. When the software polls the PCM, the PCM reports the last known value for that input as it is stored. That value could be 1 second old.
If you tie your input into our EIO interface, typically you will have an average of 4 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame. If your wideband output is very erratic, this averaging of values will help smoothen it out.
If you are on a 99+ LS1 vehicle and you are scanning at 5 frames per second, typically you will have an average of 8 or more polls of that EIO input per vehicle frame.
This is just some helpful info. I think a lot of these ideas are definately very neat.
- Keith, HP Tuners.
cool.
thinking along those lines, im sure you know more about how often these inputs are polled then we do...
the LC-1 can do that averaging for us, just like you have to do when you substitute it for the Stock O2..... what do you think would be the best setting to start out on?
edit:
im sure you've looked at this before.. what potential inputs do get polled often? whats our best bet?
heres something id like to see...
if someone with an EIO cable hooked up both wideband outputs.. one to a PCM input, and one to the EIO.... made PIDs for both.. then graphed them, i wonder how close the two lines would follow each other....
.... i mean, its the same car, same sender, same wideband controller at the same instance... and in theory, they should read almost the same.
if someone with an EIO cable hooked up both wideband outputs.. one to a PCM input, and one to the EIO.... made PIDs for both.. then graphed them, i wonder how close the two lines would follow each other....
.... i mean, its the same car, same sender, same wideband controller at the same instance... and in theory, they should read almost the same.
They would probably read very similiar, but the EIO input would be more accurate.
For every 1 point of data you get from using the EGR or A/C input of the PCM, with the EIO you will have 4 seperate points of data polled throughout the duration of the frame and averaged together to form the one EIO point.
For every 1 point of data you get from using the EGR or A/C input of the PCM, with the EIO you will have 4 seperate points of data polled throughout the duration of the frame and averaged together to form the one EIO point.
Shouldent 1 Sample Per Second Be Enough To Tune? I Mean Hell I Would Think You Could Be Pretty Good With 1 Sample Per 1000 Rpms Espically If Your On Te Street An You Do Mulitable Runs I Would Think You Would Have A Dam Good Idea What Your A\f Is .. Te Only Part About This I Dont Like Is The Spliceing Into Te Cpu But If I Decide To Permantly Install My Wideband Unit Then It Dosent Seem Like A Bad Idea
1 sample per cell is of course enough, however doing this splice and hack is not as elegant a solution as the EIO version magnus sells. I personally think there are enough features in MPVI-Pro to make it worth the extra coin, however from a business point of view, he has to say why you should buy his product instead of doing it yourself. Not to mention that logging the WB without EIO would then eat up an additional bit when logging. For framerate's sake, id want to keep anything off the OBD2's serial connection that I can.
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Verdad Gallardo Hey Just While Its On My Mind Lets Say I Want To Do This Same Mod But Instead Of A Wideband I Hook The Egr Wire Up To A Sender For My Fuel Pressure, Or Egt, Or Hell Anyother Sender Would This Work???
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
1 sample per cell is of course enough, however doing this splice and hack is not as elegant a solution as the EIO version magnus sells. I personally think there are enough features in MPVI-Pro to make it worth the extra coin, however from a business point of view, he has to say why you should buy his product instead of doing it yourself. Not to mention that logging the WB without EIO would then eat up an additional bit when logging. For framerate's sake, id want to keep anything off the OBD2's serial connection that I can.
from my understanding, anything under 24bits doesnt speed it up any.
if you're logging a WB02, you dont need to log your STFT bank1,STFT bank2,LTFT bank1,LTFT bank2.... freeing up more then enough right there.
i agree the EIO is worth the money if you're buying it right now... but since i already have a serial standard cable.....
Jpr5690:
1 sample per second would be waay too slow. luckily, nothing we're talking about moves that slow.
using a basicstamp (i love these little things.. good for testing and BSing around...) i sent a varity of signals to the PCM.. all read as good as i expected.. what i really need is a signal generator, and a oscilloscope.. then i could move on to some other interesting electronics projects.... well, i need that after i have my own garage.. lol
in anycase, im convinced that if you use an LC1 so it can make a "slower" changing signal, and if you hit the same cell enough times, you can log and get the avg AFR for that cell... and it will work more then well enough for tuning... it may not be perfect for WOT, but part throttle would tune quickly, and WOT would be alot closer.. you would atleast have a ballpark figure accurate to the cells around it...
Originally Posted by Jpr5690
Hey Just While Its On My Mind Lets Say I Want To Do This Same Mod But Instead Of A Wideband I Hook The Egr Wire Up To A Sender For My Fuel Pressure, Or Egt, Or Hell Anyother Sender Would This Work???
if its a 5v signal, or can be made into one, yea.
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
i bought my wideband yesterday.. i'll update this as i go.
Yes, Please do!
Also MrDude_1 would it be possible for you to list the steps to create the custom PID (a screen shot/s might be nice). I have read about what's needed but, I must be plugging the info in wrong to create the PID. Do I have to create the PID for the scanner and the histogram (where does the PID have to be created)? I feel dumb. It seems no one has had any problem getting their custom PID to work. They had problems wiring the lc1, funny that part was easy for me.
Thanks
Originally Posted by givittua
Yes, Please do!
Also MrDude_1 would it be possible for you to list the steps to create the custom PID (a screen shot/s might be nice). I have read about what's needed but, I must be plugging the info in wrong to create the PID. Do I have to create the PID for the scanner and the histogram (where does the PID have to be created)? I feel dumb. It seems no one has had any problem getting their custom PID to work. They had problems wiring the lc1, funny that part was easy for me. Thanks
Also MrDude_1 would it be possible for you to list the steps to create the custom PID (a screen shot/s might be nice). I have read about what's needed but, I must be plugging the info in wrong to create the PID. Do I have to create the PID for the scanner and the histogram (where does the PID have to be created)? I feel dumb. It seems no one has had any problem getting their custom PID to work. They had problems wiring the lc1, funny that part was easy for me.
Thanksi plan to write a how-to.. but i have to have mine working first.
i couldnt wire up my LC1 yesterday.. too busy, but i plan to hook it up today.
soundengineer did a little how-to for when your LC-1 has a voltage offset... if you can watch that video thing, it shows you the same steps..
heres a how-to first cut: https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/496625-how-log-your-wideband-hptuners-without-eio.html
i'll add screenshots later..
i'll add screenshots later..
The scanner will read EGR Volts. Then you create a custom PID using the EGR volts as an air fuel ratio and it will give you afr (ex: 13.5:1) also.
