Advantages/disadvantages of SD?
The main advantage I see for SD is that you can get rid of the intake restriction (maf).
I feel that the MAF has many other advantages. I feel that fueling is far more accurate. Its easier to tune out more of my cam bucking. It handles changes in weather easily. I can pass emissions, Misfire DTCs and counts work, etc.
I have a ported MAF, so the restriction is not an issue, and since ive tuned it, my open loop tune has been far more consistant than speed density.
I feel that the MAF has many other advantages. I feel that fueling is far more accurate. Its easier to tune out more of my cam bucking. It handles changes in weather easily. I can pass emissions, Misfire DTCs and counts work, etc.
I have a ported MAF, so the restriction is not an issue, and since ive tuned it, my open loop tune has been far more consistant than speed density.
Originally Posted by white2001s10
"A good tuner (with added work) can adjust the MAF table until equal power (to a SD tune) is achieved on a dyno,
but the SD tune will run faster on the track still.
And since we can tune maf's, at least those of us that attempt it. We can now change out mafs to larger more unrestricted units, so that shouldn't be an issue.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 1
From: Sunny London, UK
Nice balance of opinion.
I prefer SD as stock 75mm maf is a restriction. I dont see the point with the larger ones. They still restrict flow over an open pipe, but I do understand the advantages for flexibility etc.
I prefer SD as stock 75mm maf is a restriction. I dont see the point with the larger ones. They still restrict flow over an open pipe, but I do understand the advantages for flexibility etc.
Originally Posted by ringram
Nice balance of opinion.
I prefer SD as stock 75mm maf is a restriction. I dont see the point with the larger ones. They still restrict flow over an open pipe, but I do understand the advantages for flexibility etc.
I prefer SD as stock 75mm maf is a restriction. I dont see the point with the larger ones. They still restrict flow over an open pipe, but I do understand the advantages for flexibility etc.
Originally Posted by SmokingWS6
Thankyou!!!
And since we can tune maf's, at least those of us that attempt it. We can now change out mafs to larger more unrestricted units, so that shouldn't be an issue.
And since we can tune maf's, at least those of us that attempt it. We can now change out mafs to larger more unrestricted units, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Usually when you have the case when one feels better than the other, it's b/c one of the modes is not properly tuned. But if you have them both inline, I'd like to see someone do a "blindfold" test and point out which is which. Come to think of it, that would be a pretty sweet deal since you'd have a 50/50 chance, though I'd be willing to wager that our "blindfoldee" wouldn't be terribly confident in deciding either way.
In a boosted or large displacement application sometimes it becomes necessary to use a larger diameter maf if you wish to retain one due to frequency limitations. That's the main reason I bring up being able to upgrade maf's.
Personally I use a ported stock maf. I've experimented making runs with it removed and in place. I actually ran a tad bit slower with it removed, but as stated a lot of it has to do with the tune. AFR was mid 13's with it removed so that would explain the difference. It was rather cool outside and I had SD tuned it in summer heat.
BTW, just noticed you upgraded to a zo6. Any goodies under the hood?
Personally I use a ported stock maf. I've experimented making runs with it removed and in place. I actually ran a tad bit slower with it removed, but as stated a lot of it has to do with the tune. AFR was mid 13's with it removed so that would explain the difference. It was rather cool outside and I had SD tuned it in summer heat.
BTW, just noticed you upgraded to a zo6. Any goodies under the hood?
FormerVendor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by ringram
Nice balance of opinion.
I prefer SD as stock 75mm maf is a restriction. I dont see the point with the larger ones. They still restrict flow over an open pipe, but I do understand the advantages for flexibility etc.
I prefer SD as stock 75mm maf is a restriction. I dont see the point with the larger ones. They still restrict flow over an open pipe, but I do understand the advantages for flexibility etc.
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Originally Posted by SmokingWS6
In a boosted or large displacement application sometimes it becomes necessary to use a larger diameter maf if you wish to retain one due to frequency limitations. That's the main reason I bring up being able to upgrade maf's.
Personally I use a ported stock maf. I've experimented making runs with it removed and in place. I actually ran a tad bit slower with it removed, but as stated a lot of it has to do with the tune. AFR was mid 13's with it removed so that would explain the difference. It was rather cool outside and I had SD tuned it in summer heat.
BTW, just noticed you upgraded to a zo6. Any goodies under the hood?
Personally I use a ported stock maf. I've experimented making runs with it removed and in place. I actually ran a tad bit slower with it removed, but as stated a lot of it has to do with the tune. AFR was mid 13's with it removed so that would explain the difference. It was rather cool outside and I had SD tuned it in summer heat.
BTW, just noticed you upgraded to a zo6. Any goodies under the hood?
FormerVendor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by ringram
... which is why I have a PT otrcai on the way
In all the testing i've seen, the difference between SD with the GTS intake pipe and the VZ 85mm MAF is zero (even on small-medium cammed cars).
if at WOT your MAP is within 1-2 of Baro then the intake is not the problem. I've seen tests that move a vac gauge along the intake and i can tell you that certainly the 70mm MAF *IS* a restriction even on a stock LS1, but the 85mm MAF moves the point of restriction to the TB and/or the intake manifold inlet section. In the pre Monaro CAI days the old style VT airbox was worse than the MAF. Who would have thought that a sub $20 airbox and creative use of a 65mm holesaw would flow better than the best HSV could come up with at the time...
Even on 4-6 psi boosted cars the 85mm MAF is not the major bottleneck.
The VZ style 85mm MAF is readily availble now in Australia, which is a totally different story to a couple of years ago when "MAFless fever" was in full swing
We regularly see s/c LS2's 6-9psi with 320+ rwkw still using the MAF. 2bar isn't far away but it's not the walk in the park the LS1 was that's for sure...
Chris...
Originally Posted by Bink
Nah,.......you'll get the itch.
Then...the mods will start!
Then...the mods will start!
And to contribute more to this thread:https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...09#post4856709
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: PNW
Originally Posted by Darkness
Do F1 motors have a MAF? No
Is F1 motors driven on the street? And is the FITECH? NO and NO.
Most people go with SD for when they have reached the flow capacity of the MAF and need more air flow. IF your motor isn't flowing more CFM of air than the MAF can flow, then there is no advantage.
Originally Posted by Red99C5
Most people go with SD for when they have reached the flow capacity of the MAF and need more air flow. IF your motor isn't flowing more CFM of air than the MAF can flow, then there is no advantage.
Disadvantages of SD tuning (now that I have seen major weather changes on a daily driven basis)
-Lean start up with SD
-Part throttle/low flow fueling over corrected for IAT readings
Driving around now with the cam in the car, a tune on a cool day will make the car lean on a hot day (which I thought was odd) which makes it buck and it is a pain in the ***.
-Lean start up with SD
-Part throttle/low flow fueling over corrected for IAT readings
Driving around now with the cam in the car, a tune on a cool day will make the car lean on a hot day (which I thought was odd) which makes it buck and it is a pain in the ***.
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
Disadvantages of SD tuning (now that I have seen major weather changes on a daily driven basis)
-Lean start up with SD
-Part throttle/low flow fueling over corrected for IAT readings
Driving around now with the cam in the car, a tune on a cool day will make the car lean on a hot day (which I thought was odd) which makes it buck and it is a pain in the ***.
-Lean start up with SD
-Part throttle/low flow fueling over corrected for IAT readings
Driving around now with the cam in the car, a tune on a cool day will make the car lean on a hot day (which I thought was odd) which makes it buck and it is a pain in the ***.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 33
From: Anderson, Indiana
Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
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91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com