Advantages/disadvantages of SD?
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
As long as the A/F is 12.8 at WOT in the end, does it matter if your commanded and actual A/F are exactly the same?
if your engine was a static device, that didnt change, you didnt mod it more, and assuming that it still changed properly with the weather and other external changes... then i guess not.
however, i tune my car with the wideband, then goto the dyno... 3pulls later, i realize, hey... my car may be doing 12.8, but lets see if it likes 12.3..... 30seconds later in the PE table, and poof, my actual AFR is 12.3 or really close to it.... and i find that my car likes it a little richer(or a little leaner) then "normal"
same thing at the track..
when you change injectors, or do some other static "constant" changes, you're back at square 1.. or worse, trying to figure out how to get from here to there, by further fudging....
so like this thread is all about, if the ends is the same, right now it doesnt matter.. but its when something changes, be it throttle position, engine mods, weather... its how your tuning reacts to thoes changes that diffrences show.
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
yes, your commanded and actual need to be the same
It would seem easier to just adjust PE to make A/F match what I want it to be (i.e. if the wideband reads 12.1 at 2k rpm , I'll lean it out a few points at 2k PE table).
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
So, when I get on the dyno next week, should I set my PE table to what I want my commanded fuel to be, then adjust MAF calibration to match that airflow?
It would seem easier to just adjust PE to make A/F match what I want it to be (i.e. if the wideband reads 12.1 at 2k rpm , I'll lean it out a few points at 2k PE table).
It would seem easier to just adjust PE to make A/F match what I want it to be (i.e. if the wideband reads 12.1 at 2k rpm , I'll lean it out a few points at 2k PE table).
Originally Posted by TAQuickness
you really ought to read the HPT version of the EFILive Autotune Tutorial.
Where's the link? (the one in your sig is just efilive).
These tutorials depend on who write them, and I disagree with some things in them all. I made a sticky on the HPT web page with various tuning info. If you cant find what you need in there, just PM me and I will write it out for you.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
I know. WOT will be fine tuned on the dyno.
I got my VE table close using STFTs above 4000 rpm.
I disabled OLFA (1.0), set PE enable to 80map and 80% TPS. You can get most of the table (80 and below) this way.
Then, I used hand smoothing and "trends" to determine as close as I can how the 80+ Map cells should look.
But, for WOT, VE, MAP, PE..... all means to an end right? As long as the A/F is 12.8 at WOT in the end, does it matter if your commanded and actual A/F are exactly the same?
I got my VE table close using STFTs above 4000 rpm.
I disabled OLFA (1.0), set PE enable to 80map and 80% TPS. You can get most of the table (80 and below) this way.
Then, I used hand smoothing and "trends" to determine as close as I can how the 80+ Map cells should look.
But, for WOT, VE, MAP, PE..... all means to an end right? As long as the A/F is 12.8 at WOT in the end, does it matter if your commanded and actual A/F are exactly the same?
My commanded and actual match, so what I put into my PE table is what I see on my wideband,
this makes my life easier for me, but that's just my $0.01.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
So, when I get on the dyno next week, should I set my PE table to what I want my commanded fuel to be, then adjust MAF calibration to match that airflow?
It would seem easier to just adjust PE to make A/F match what I want it to be (i.e. if the wideband reads 12.1 at 2k rpm , I'll lean it out a few points at 2k PE table).
It would seem easier to just adjust PE to make A/F match what I want it to be (i.e. if the wideband reads 12.1 at 2k rpm , I'll lean it out a few points at 2k PE table).
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Originally Posted by joecar
It sounds alot like your VE table isn't dialed in.
Obviously at WOT, without a wideband, my VE table isn't going to be perfect.
Right now, my PE is set so that my o2s read about the same from 2k to 6700 rpm. All the PE settings are withing .03 of each other. So I'm commanding between 12.5 and 12.8 A/F right now with my PE. (1.14 to 1.17 PE)
I'm trying to find out what I need to adjust when I get on the dyno to get my A/F to read about 12.5 on the dyno. It's either change PE or change MAF.
when you get on the dyno, at wot, you need to change the maf transfer function to get your commanded air fuel (as specified in the PE table, plus any applicable adders) to make your real airfuel = your commanded air fuel ratio.
Ryan
Ryan
Originally Posted by slow
when you get on the dyno, at wot, you need to change the maf transfer function to get your commanded air fuel (as specified in the PE table, plus any applicable adders) to make your real airfuel = your commanded air fuel ratio.
Ryan
Ryan
Then you just change the frequency that corresponds with the rpm at WOT? i.e. with a log I just looked at, 7000hz =2800rpm, 7500= 3000rpm, 8000hz=3300rpm, 9000hz=4800rpm, etc.
just log rpm and frequency on the dyno. put your AFR to what you WANT it to be WOT, from there, look at teh AFR and see what is going on. say at 10,000 Hz it is lean, you want to add airflow in the MAF calibration at 10,000 Hz, so on and so forth.
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
Again.... I don't have a wideband.
then you dont have the tools you need to do it right. its hard to realize how much having it helps until you try it.
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
I don't feel like dropping $200 for LC-1 and $200 to upgrade to EIO interface with HPtuners right now.
thats why i spent LESS THEN $200 SHIPPED TO MY DOOR for my LC1 from dynotune, and then skipped the EIO all together... and i was even nice enough to write up how i did it..
Originally Posted by silverTA2002
Yeah yeah.....
Say what you will, but when you have the ability to go back and forth between having the MAF enabled and disabled back to back.
And you notice a significant difference in throttle response and low end torque each time........
Would it make everyone feel better if I log the exact time it takes in 3rd gear to go from 2000 rpm to 5000 rpm without the MAF, then do it WITH the maf??
Say what you will, but when you have the ability to go back and forth between having the MAF enabled and disabled back to back.
And you notice a significant difference in throttle response and low end torque each time........
Would it make everyone feel better if I log the exact time it takes in 3rd gear to go from 2000 rpm to 5000 rpm without the MAF, then do it WITH the maf??
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Texas,U.S.A.
Sd?blown
Originally Posted by NicD
Classic!
I am so tired of hearing about the whole speed density thing and how it's worth more so much horsepower. Use the MAF unless you have a good reason to go speed density is my old saying.
I am so tired of hearing about the whole speed density thing and how it's worth more so much horsepower. Use the MAF unless you have a good reason to go speed density is my old saying.
I don't understand how a stock or 85 mm MAF is not a restriction when you are running a 90mm FAST/NW 90 TB. I have also heard that the 85mm MAF's are very difficult to dial in and have been told to stay away. I am also running a 402ci motor w/ AFR 225's. So with that said, do I have a legit reason to run SD? Or could I run a MAF and see the same performance (rather no performance hit) if tuned correctly? I would actually prefer to run a MAF because of some of the other reasons stated like climate and lean starts.
IMO it doesn't matter what type of MAF it is or how BIG it is, they all can be dialed in to where you want in short time. It isn't like it used to be when we didn't have the tools to calibrate the MAF, now we do and it isn't hard. If you want to run a MAF, buy whatever it is you want. If your tuner knows what he/she is doing, they will be able to take care of you.
I have done SEVERAL stock, GMS, Z06, etc MAFs and all calibrate the same way.
I have done SEVERAL stock, GMS, Z06, etc MAFs and all calibrate the same way.
But I am stuck on the size. The biggest MAF that I am aware off is the 85mm. I just spent a ton of cash on a FAST 90/ NW 90 TB. Am I wrong in thinking that putting an 85mm tube in front of my 90mm stuff is a restriction?