Who is running E85?
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Tranås, Sweden
I am running 100% E85...
Why is E85 a better fuel ?
1. It has a much higher evaporative cooling power than gasoline so the intake air charge in the cylinder is significantly cooler that it is with a comparable mixture of gasoline --- that means higher VE.
2. Its octane as blended in E85 is about 100, its blending octane when added to gasoline is rated at 118, so it is a very cost effective octane booster.
3. Ethanol burns faster than gasoline but has a slightly longer ignition delay during the slow burn phase of combustion so the engine does not do as much negative work fighting rising cylinder pressures due to large ignition advances. The total ignition advance for E85 is almost identical to the ideal advance for gasoline so it does not cause the ECU problems when you mix them.
4. At proper mixture you actually are releasing more energy in the cylinder due to the higher quantity of fuel you can burn. ( Ethanol can burn effeciently at much richer mixtures than gasoline can) That means about a 5% increase in energy release all by itself.
5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.
6. It will, at proper mixtures lower EGT's by around 200 deg F.
7. It is much cheaper ( if you go to a station that is not trying to price gouge).
Why is E85 a better fuel ?
1. It has a much higher evaporative cooling power than gasoline so the intake air charge in the cylinder is significantly cooler that it is with a comparable mixture of gasoline --- that means higher VE.
2. Its octane as blended in E85 is about 100, its blending octane when added to gasoline is rated at 118, so it is a very cost effective octane booster.
3. Ethanol burns faster than gasoline but has a slightly longer ignition delay during the slow burn phase of combustion so the engine does not do as much negative work fighting rising cylinder pressures due to large ignition advances. The total ignition advance for E85 is almost identical to the ideal advance for gasoline so it does not cause the ECU problems when you mix them.
4. At proper mixture you actually are releasing more energy in the cylinder due to the higher quantity of fuel you can burn. ( Ethanol can burn effeciently at much richer mixtures than gasoline can) That means about a 5% increase in energy release all by itself.
5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.
6. It will, at proper mixtures lower EGT's by around 200 deg F.
7. It is much cheaper ( if you go to a station that is not trying to price gouge).
if you are running forced induction and e85 you need up too a 60% larger injector, becuase it uses that much more fuel.
but yes it burns alot cooler...my buddy runs it in his 73 camaro with a ls1 swap and we can't get his temp guage past 190 it runs soo cool.
but yes it burns alot cooler...my buddy runs it in his 73 camaro with a ls1 swap and we can't get his temp guage past 190 it runs soo cool.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2005
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Now what about compression ratios, I've read that to get the most out of ethanol, is to run 11 - 12 to 1, and with 2-3 decrease in timing. And what is your mileage difference, how much have you lose?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 284
Likes: 1
From: Hebron, Oh
What about the fuel lines. The flex fuel vehicles like the 5.3 (vin z, 06 and later tahoes and subs) have diiferent fuel lines than the gas motors. After time won't the fuel lines begin to rot from the alcohol. I have thought to run E85 and tune accordingly, but don't want to ruin the fuel lines over time.
Originally Posted by rkinney
What about the fuel lines. The flex fuel vehicles like the 5.3 (vin z, 06 and later tahoes and subs) have diiferent fuel lines than the gas motors. After time won't the fuel lines begin to rot from the alcohol. I have thought to run E85 and tune accordingly, but don't want to ruin the fuel lines over time.
You can damage your fuel system over time if it's not set properly to handle a higher quantity of alcohol. Conversion kits were made it the 80's for cars to switch, but it just wasn't cost-effective to replace the whole system. Injectors, lines, seals, and even the tank I believe needs to be replaced. The last thing I want is a seal to bust a leak anywhere in my fuel system. With my luck, I'd run over someone's cigarette that just got tossed out the window and then.....BOOOOM! I don't know about you, but....personally, I'm not too fond of burning to death. Trending Topics
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
Originally Posted by blackhawk J
Wow that sounds like some good news. So LS1 cars are E 85 compatable from the factory?
They can be tuned to run E85 w/bigger injectors... however they were not engineered from GM to run E85 ... no one yet knows what the long term (if any) effects will be
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TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,036
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
^^^ if you tuned for it I supposed they could (would need larger injectors..)
Just remember... most parts in the US it doesn't make sense yet to run E85 ... E85 is about 70% as efficient as straight gasoline... so you get 70% the fuel economy out of it... also F-Body's are not designed from the factory to run 85% ethanol.... so while short term there don't appear to be any problems... no one yet knows if there will be any long term effects
If you're in the states... and interested in running E85 to save money... search this forum... you'll find tons of threads about it... and see that for most areas of the states it's simply not economically viable
Just remember... most parts in the US it doesn't make sense yet to run E85 ... E85 is about 70% as efficient as straight gasoline... so you get 70% the fuel economy out of it... also F-Body's are not designed from the factory to run 85% ethanol.... so while short term there don't appear to be any problems... no one yet knows if there will be any long term effects
If you're in the states... and interested in running E85 to save money... search this forum... you'll find tons of threads about it... and see that for most areas of the states it's simply not economically viable
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 53
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From what I hear and reasearch Ethenol is corosive to rubbers and aluminums. Fuel line is made of steel, most gas tanks are made of steel or plastic, injectors are just solinoids. To me if you have it tuned and mixed right there shouldn't be a problem. Ethenol isn't anything new. Have you heard of Moonshine? That is ethenol in pure form. I am thinking about just makeing ethenol myself to run in my car. IMO if **** breaks fix it, the use of Ethenol saved me how much money on the way?
moonshiners used to store it in thier gas tanks and also use it as fuel during prohibition, crazy to think you can run your car off the same thing you drink!!
From what Ive heard the flex fuel engines have larger injectors and thats about the only big difference aside from some new tuning, I really dont see anyone having problems running this stuff as long as they have enough injector.
We have had up too 10% ethanol as an addative in our gas since the 70's when the government mandated that all engines be compliant to a 10% standard.
From what Ive heard the flex fuel engines have larger injectors and thats about the only big difference aside from some new tuning, I really dont see anyone having problems running this stuff as long as they have enough injector.
We have had up too 10% ethanol as an addative in our gas since the 70's when the government mandated that all engines be compliant to a 10% standard.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,036
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
injectors and tuning are the 2 main things... however as mentioned, cars specifically designed for E85 do have certain items such as fuel lines upgraded... the manufacturer does this so that the cars won't start self destructing in 5/6/7 years... a car not intended for E85 may run fine short term... but no one yet knows the long term effects...
So unless E85 is significantly (at least 50%) cheaper than regular gasoline.... I personally wouldn't risk it
(also keep in mind a stock tune will not handle E85... fuel trims will max and you'll go lean... so tuning and injectors are both a must)
So unless E85 is significantly (at least 50%) cheaper than regular gasoline.... I personally wouldn't risk it
(also keep in mind a stock tune will not handle E85... fuel trims will max and you'll go lean... so tuning and injectors are both a must)
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2006
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TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Twin Cities
Originally Posted by horist
So unless E85 is significantly (at least 50%) cheaper than regular gasoline.... I personally wouldn't risk it
Up to 20% isn't going to damage your fuel system going beyond that and your in uncharted territory. With the large brain trust on this site you'd think some parts guy could take pictures from the parts bin of the componants that make up the fuel lines for Camaro's and Trucks...
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,036
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
^^^^up to 20% yes... but E20 isn't E85 .... I'd rather the money stay here too, but at current pricing it's just not worth it (between loss of fuel economy and potential risk to fuel components) .... I'm an avid supporter of E85 as I believe it to be one of the major fuels of the future (amongst bio diesel and hopefully hydrogen... assuming a process to converter H20 to hydrogen is discovered that uses less electricity/fuel) ...
Once an infrastructure for E85 is setup in the US then pricing will drop and it'll likely be more economically feasible... but as it stands right now... 70% fuel economy + potential damage to stock fueling parts on non E85 compliant vehicles at near 87 octane E10 prices..... doesn't make E85 a feasible alternative in the USA
Plus this nationwide "corn gas" sux! can't get a good deal on corn on the cob!
Once an infrastructure for E85 is setup in the US then pricing will drop and it'll likely be more economically feasible... but as it stands right now... 70% fuel economy + potential damage to stock fueling parts on non E85 compliant vehicles at near 87 octane E10 prices..... doesn't make E85 a feasible alternative in the USA
Plus this nationwide "corn gas" sux! can't get a good deal on corn on the cob!
why is it always whats economically feasable? why cant this country be concerned about whats more environmentally feasable? i live in NY and it is 95 degrees today. global warming anyone?