Thoughts/opinions on Roadrunner LS1 Emulator?
09-25-2006, 02:00 PM
#41
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For for the record it appears he meant hawk, not hock or knock. I had no idea this thread would create such a firestorm. I've learned more about my HPT and EFIlive and Roadrunner than I could have by asking questions I didn't even know to ask. Thanks for all of the info. guys. I bought my HPT to do a very minor tweek and it worked. I may never do any more tuning but it was kind'a fun playing with it.
Last edited by GMW-CSL; 09-25-2006 at 02:20 PM. Reason: to clarify.
09-25-2006, 03:08 PM
#42
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Its pretty simple.
Real time tuning comes with HP Tuners, at the $499 price, for vehicles that support it, and requires no additional hardware.
Its extremly affordable, easy to implement, fun to use, and gets the job done.
Its not designed to allow you to tune every table, like your speed limiters, or RPM limiters, or fan turn on speeds.. Most tuners know what they want these parameters to be and do not require real time tuning to adjust them on the dyno.
It is designed to allow you to tune idle/spark/fuel, etc.. in real time, while on a dyno, or wherever, in a quick and efficient manner, at a very affordable cost, without requireing hardware installation and/or wiring. It does this successfully.
We hope those that use our RTT solution enjoy it.
For the price, you can't beat it!
Real time tuning comes with HP Tuners, at the $499 price, for vehicles that support it, and requires no additional hardware.
Its extremly affordable, easy to implement, fun to use, and gets the job done.
Its not designed to allow you to tune every table, like your speed limiters, or RPM limiters, or fan turn on speeds.. Most tuners know what they want these parameters to be and do not require real time tuning to adjust them on the dyno.
It is designed to allow you to tune idle/spark/fuel, etc.. in real time, while on a dyno, or wherever, in a quick and efficient manner, at a very affordable cost, without requireing hardware installation and/or wiring. It does this successfully.
We hope those that use our RTT solution enjoy it.
For the price, you can't beat it!
09-25-2006, 04:59 PM
#43
Originally Posted by Magnus
Real time tuning comes with HP Tuners, at the $499 price, for vehicles that support it, and requires no additional hardware.
09-25-2006, 05:06 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Black02SS
While this is 100% true, please let your customers know that it is very hard to tune with your RTT when you can't integrate a wideband with the $499. How do you tune properly without a wideband? Also, I have asked this before and never get a response, when do you guys plan on coming out with a DEMO for potential customers to try? This would eliminate a lot of the confusion with people if they could try first hand, BOTH packages. Your tutorials are nice, but they leave out a few "items" that I feel would have some picking one over the other.
09-25-2006, 05:11 PM
#45
Originally Posted by Black02SS
While this is 100% true, please let your customers know that it is very hard to tune with your RTT when you can't integrate a wideband with the $499. How do you tune properly without a wideband? Also, I have asked this before and never get a response, when do you guys plan on coming out with a DEMO for potential customers to try? This would eliminate a lot of the confusion with people if they could try first hand, BOTH packages. Your tutorials are nice, but they leave out a few "items" that I feel would have some picking one over the other.
As for the demo, I have it but what is the point if I do not have a cable to test it out. When will EFI-Live come out with a true demo version which anyone can try out. I doubt it. The software is useless without being able to see how it interacts with the vehicle. I have many tuning programs, while it is nice to get familiar with the navigation, there is very little a first timer will understand of how this will help them tune. Hands on experience is how all of us learned.
I do not have anything against either tuning solution, I firmly believe competition fuels progress, although the supporters of some leave a lot to be desired. If your product is as good as you say, then allow it to sell itself. No need to always "defend" the product. Consumers will always have preferences to brands or options, leave it up to them to decide. Just present your factual side and be done with it.
09-25-2006, 06:39 PM
#46
I am not going to get into a debate on this, but view a few of the points. How can you adjust fueling and spark to be optimal if your fuel isn't set? How can you dial in the idle if you are lean? These are things that are failed to be mentioned to potential customers.
As for a demo, it is there to see what the software offers as BOTH can tune a vehicle. The layout is a main selling point as far as I am concerned. There are some views that I feel potential customers would not like if they were allowed to see the FULL program and not just a tutorial. That is my point on a DEMO version.
BTW - I did the hack job with the wideband back when I was using LS1Edit and EFILive. While it works, it just isn't something I would recommend, let alone to someone that want's to tune with a real time solution.
If you don't have the proper tools, how can you tune???? That is like building a motor without a torque wrench, sure it can be done but how well is the question.
As for a demo, it is there to see what the software offers as BOTH can tune a vehicle. The layout is a main selling point as far as I am concerned. There are some views that I feel potential customers would not like if they were allowed to see the FULL program and not just a tutorial. That is my point on a DEMO version.
BTW - I did the hack job with the wideband back when I was using LS1Edit and EFILive. While it works, it just isn't something I would recommend, let alone to someone that want's to tune with a real time solution.
If you don't have the proper tools, how can you tune???? That is like building a motor without a torque wrench, sure it can be done but how well is the question.
09-25-2006, 07:57 PM
#47
Well, let me summerize and tell me if I have this correct. FYI, I'm still sitting on the fence and have yet to purchase a programming software, but cost is definitely on top of the concern list as I have a baby on the way.
If you are looking for the quickest tuning, and don't want to waste much time, and have the capital to spend, I could see how the Road Runner and Efi Live would be the choice if you were doing this for a living.
But for someone who doesn't mind doing some logging, then making some quick changes, and isn't in a huge rush to dial in a new combo or mod, I see the benefit of HPtuners. It's all in one package and you don't have to swap in-out pcms, which I don't care what people say, is always a risk potential of cooking it.
So I can see how proffesionals would prefer to use the EFI/road runner combo because they want to tune a car as quick as possible, but for a home tuner, looking to DIY with a weekend car only, HP tuners is going to be the better route since you may sacrifice a little, but at a lower cost.
If you are looking for the quickest tuning, and don't want to waste much time, and have the capital to spend, I could see how the Road Runner and Efi Live would be the choice if you were doing this for a living.
But for someone who doesn't mind doing some logging, then making some quick changes, and isn't in a huge rush to dial in a new combo or mod, I see the benefit of HPtuners. It's all in one package and you don't have to swap in-out pcms, which I don't care what people say, is always a risk potential of cooking it.
So I can see how proffesionals would prefer to use the EFI/road runner combo because they want to tune a car as quick as possible, but for a home tuner, looking to DIY with a weekend car only, HP tuners is going to be the better route since you may sacrifice a little, but at a lower cost.
09-25-2006, 08:10 PM
#48
if you want me to show you how RTT works Brian let me know and I'll bring my stuff to work one day & apply the OS on your TA...its a very simple process but has lots of functionality and considering it wouldnt cost you any extra with your initial purchase it definitly has the best bang for the buck.
09-26-2006, 12:05 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Craig Moates
Folks,
Please, all I ask here is that if there are comparisons presented in this thread or others, let them be made by people who are QUALIFIED to make a representative offering!
If we could somehow restrain ourselves and allow folks who have ACTUALLY USED BOTH systems describe the relative benefits, it would be a much cleaner illustration. Having one side or the other pontificate on how great their stuff is doesn't do any good, and it's downright misleading if not misdirecting.
The only real comparative analysis will come from ACTUAL USERS who have experience with BOTH systems. Other than that, you're just seeing sales pitches and other slanted / pseudo-religious opinions.
If you want to start a separate thread regarding the benefits of HPT RTT, go for it. If you'd rather contaminate every thread like this that pops up with redirecting propaganda, that is just downright inappropriate. I believe the only relevant question originally posted on here (why doesn't HPT work with RR) has been addressed. And it has been illustrated here repeatedly for the more perceptive among us.
Regards,
Craig
Please, all I ask here is that if there are comparisons presented in this thread or others, let them be made by people who are QUALIFIED to make a representative offering!
If we could somehow restrain ourselves and allow folks who have ACTUALLY USED BOTH systems describe the relative benefits, it would be a much cleaner illustration. Having one side or the other pontificate on how great their stuff is doesn't do any good, and it's downright misleading if not misdirecting.
The only real comparative analysis will come from ACTUAL USERS who have experience with BOTH systems. Other than that, you're just seeing sales pitches and other slanted / pseudo-religious opinions.
If you want to start a separate thread regarding the benefits of HPT RTT, go for it. If you'd rather contaminate every thread like this that pops up with redirecting propaganda, that is just downright inappropriate. I believe the only relevant question originally posted on here (why doesn't HPT work with RR) has been addressed. And it has been illustrated here repeatedly for the more perceptive among us.
Regards,
Craig
If you havent tried every solution out there how could you give a valid comparison.
Nowdays my HPT cable resides in the same place as my LS1edit cable , in the bottom of the tool box , maybe one day I will have a need for them again , but at present the EFILIVE and Road Runner solutions are what works best for me.
09-26-2006, 07:06 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by wait4me
I forgot to brag about my wireless connection.. the funny thing is, I was driving next to my wife and logged on.. ohhh the fun that was...
the funny thing is, I was driving next to my wife and logged on.. ohhh the fun that was... 
Cheers Scotty.
09-26-2006, 07:42 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by foff667
...is RTT is a cost effective(1 credit@$49 for 1 bar SD or 1 bar MAF) and effective way to real time tune a vehicle. I use it on EVERY vehicle I tune now because it really does make tuning a breeze...
thanks, man
09-26-2006, 08:42 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by foff667
it will be whatever you set it up to be...it can be closed loop maf, open loop maf, closed loop SD or open loop SD.
i am interested in the unlimited, but for now, will buy the single vehicle.
do you know how it will work when i am ready to buy the unlimited ls1 cars and trucks license?
this is GOOD!!!
PS:i am right now on the hptuners site looking for this, but thought i ask you also.
09-26-2006, 08:56 PM
#59
if you decide on just the single maf RTT enhancement now, the next time you decide to apply it to another vehicle it will ask you how you'd like to license it & how many credits it will cost...if you have enough credits at that time you can upgrade to the unlimited.
09-26-2006, 09:10 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by foff667
if you decide on just the single maf RTT enhancement now, the next time you decide to apply it to another vehicle it will ask you how you'd like to license it & how many credits it will cost...if you have enough credits at that time you can upgrade to the unlimited.
and if i don't have credits, i just go through orders and pay for the necessary credits, right?
i guess my question is having purchased the one credit, will it also count towards the purchase of the unlimited?
from the site-99+ GM Gen3 V8 Vehicles Only
Single vehicle license is $49 per vehicle.
Unlimited LS1 car & truck costs $499. is this 10 credits?