Idle is rich with SD tune
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Portland Oregon
When I turned the MIL off before, the car would not start. That was without any change to the MAF value. I will try it with a low number in the MAF fail. If it starts, all is good. Back in an hour.....
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Powell, TN
Originally Posted by RedHardSupra
so what you're saying that it's OK to teach people how to do things wrong, because they're new to it? like it's OK to teach kids that 2*3=5... blah, blah, blah
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Powell, TN
Originally Posted by racecar
Got ready to drive home and the car would not start. Cleared code102 and it runs.
I tried to uncheck the SES box for 102 yesterday and the car would not start. With my SD tune, should I just set the MAF fail freq to 0, and leave the SES light box turned on on ? Will that do it.
I tried to uncheck the SES box for 102 yesterday and the car would not start. With my SD tune, should I just set the MAF fail freq to 0, and leave the SES light box turned on on ? Will that do it.
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Portland Oregon
It was set to MIL on second error. If I unchecked the box, it would not start. I never tried MIL on first and unchecked.
Tonight I just set the freq to 0 and it starts with no Check engine light, so I should be ready to go tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for all the good input. I just installed this LS2TB and FAST90 this week without MAF and with the SD tune, so it has really been a scramble to make it work. I'm glad that everyone is willing to share there experience. Today was way better at the track, AFR was close (12.0-12.4) , I think I can nail it right on 12.7 tomorrow
I will let you know how I do in the race. Next week I will start logging to get the VE table straightened out in the mid range.
Tonight I just set the freq to 0 and it starts with no Check engine light, so I should be ready to go tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for all the good input. I just installed this LS2TB and FAST90 this week without MAF and with the SD tune, so it has really been a scramble to make it work. I'm glad that everyone is willing to share there experience. Today was way better at the track, AFR was close (12.0-12.4) , I think I can nail it right on 12.7 tomorrow
I will let you know how I do in the race. Next week I will start logging to get the VE table straightened out in the mid range. Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Powell, TN
Originally Posted by racecar
It was set to MIL on second error. If I unchecked the box, it would not start. I never tried MIL on first and unchecked.
Tonight I just set the freq to 0 and it starts with no Check engine light, so I should be ready to go tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for all the good input. I just installed this LS2TB and FAST90 this week without MAF and with the SD tune, so it has really been a scramble to make it work. I'm glad that everyone is willing to share there experience. Today was way better at the track, AFR was close (12.0-12.4) , I think I can nail it right on 12.7 tomorrow I will let you know how I do in the race. Next week I will start logging to get the VE table straightened out in the mid range.
Tonight I just set the freq to 0 and it starts with no Check engine light, so I should be ready to go tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for all the good input. I just installed this LS2TB and FAST90 this week without MAF and with the SD tune, so it has really been a scramble to make it work. I'm glad that everyone is willing to share there experience. Today was way better at the track, AFR was close (12.0-12.4) , I think I can nail it right on 12.7 tomorrow
I will let you know how I do in the race. Next week I will start logging to get the VE table straightened out in the mid range.
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Portland Oregon
I started the car and turned on the data collection on Pre-Grid about 2 minutes before the race, then they went on a hold. I turned the car off and restarted a few minutes later. That screwed the data so I can't tell if the AFR is better. It ran good, pulls strong to 6500. I got a slow start and got passed by 2 Porsches, ended up 5th. A 2006 Z06 won the race.
What's the goal here for AFR? I know that 12.7 is the best for WOT and racing conditions. 14.7 is for cruising. 14.7 for idle?? What about cold start and idle, what should the target AFR be? Right now I am way rich at idle (12.0) and about 10.5 at cold start up.
It smells rich.
What's the goal here for AFR? I know that 12.7 is the best for WOT and racing conditions. 14.7 is for cruising. 14.7 for idle?? What about cold start and idle, what should the target AFR be? Right now I am way rich at idle (12.0) and about 10.5 at cold start up.
It smells rich.
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Powell, TN
Originally Posted by racecar
I started the car and turned on the data collection on Pre-Grid about 2 minutes before the race, then they went on a hold. I turned the car off and restarted a few minutes later. That screwed the data so I can't tell if the AFR is better. It ran good, pulls strong to 6500. I got a slow start and got passed by 2 Porsches, ended up 5th. A 2006 Z06 won the race.
What's the goal here for AFR? I know that 12.7 is the best for WOT and racing conditions. 14.7 is for cruising. 14.7 for idle?? What about cold start and idle, what should the target AFR be? Right now I am way rich at idle (12.0) and about 10.5 at cold start up.
It smells rich.
What's the goal here for AFR? I know that 12.7 is the best for WOT and racing conditions. 14.7 is for cruising. 14.7 for idle?? What about cold start and idle, what should the target AFR be? Right now I am way rich at idle (12.0) and about 10.5 at cold start up.
It smells rich.
AFR for a '99 vette is 14.63 (See Engine/Fuel Control/General). This is the AFR that you want for everything except WOT.
Idle should be 14.63 also. You tune it when you are doing the VE. Be sure the car is completely warmed up before any tuning. There are tables that add fuel until you reach operating temp that will throw off readings. If you do the VE correctly it includes idle also.
When you go back to closed loop your AFRs will be 14.63, because that's what the O2s do. You tune the VE so that the O2s don't have to work to find stoich, this gives you your throttle response. Also, when you hit PE while driving, if you enter PE from a cell with a positive Fuel Trim, say +5, the PCM will add 5% fuel the whole time you have your foot down. So if the VE isn't in line, your AFR at WOT could be different each time you floor it. At the end of tuning, your fuel trims should be between 0 and -4. That way you will never enter PE from a positive Fuel Trim. The PCM won't subtract fuel so, negative trims have no effect.
Be sure you do your math for PE using 14.63. And an FYI, some people will richen the fuel slightly between 4000 and 5200 rpm in the PE. This is where a corvette makes peak torque. After 5200, the AFR is the same as it was before 4000 rpm. The best thing to do is put it on a dyno.
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Portland Oregon
This was my first race this year, so I am still getting up to speed. Everyone else has run two before this one, they were all over me. It takes me a couple of laps to get up to speed. Thanks for the tuning tips. I will shoot for 14.63 overall and 12.7 at WOT.
What do you expect to see at cold start? 13.7 ?
I can understand a little richer at 4000-5200 peak torque, may have more tendancy to spark knock.
I am flat at 25 degrees with 11.5:1 static compression. I had knock problems last year, and found that when I shift and lift off the gas, it was advancing due to the idle spark table, then it would knock when I hit the gas again. Flattened that table to 25 and solved the problem.
What do you expect to see at cold start? 13.7 ?
I can understand a little richer at 4000-5200 peak torque, may have more tendancy to spark knock.
I am flat at 25 degrees with 11.5:1 static compression. I had knock problems last year, and found that when I shift and lift off the gas, it was advancing due to the idle spark table, then it would knock when I hit the gas again. Flattened that table to 25 and solved the problem.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
I'm using filters to try and keep me near the center of the VE cell. In other words, I don't like the data near the edges of the cells because there's more influence from the next cell over due to interpolation. So, I set filters up to show me data from 1150~1250 RPMs, 1550~1650 RPMs, and so on....
Mround is in the analysis toolpack.
11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
I cant see rounding the data in excel to be any benefit. Trying to remove the data which is not in the cells centrepoint & is skewed by interpolation is the goal. Apart from some heavy filtering or tedious cut & pasting from an extremely detailed map I cant see any easier way to accomplish this.
don't remove data from non central areas, you're just eliminating potentially beneficial data. what you want to do is to take averages of all the values in the area. it's really hard to do in excel, does anyone have a good method for it?
11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
I am trying to work something out now where a more detailed map can be used to work out the average cell value. Basically I figure that since the ve look up value is unmolested by modifiers the maths behind the interpolation should stand out in a good log. This should allow the corrections to be applied to the actual logged data & then worked out back to an absolute cell value. Mind you if I am wrong in my thinking it wouldnt be the first time.
Originally Posted by RedHardSupra
don't remove data from non central areas, you're just eliminating potentially beneficial data. what you want to do is to take averages of all the values in the area. it's really hard to do in excel, does anyone have a good method for it?
1) Create an extra fields for rounded for rpm, rounded KPA, and average STRIMs (or what ever variable you are using; I don't have a wide band). Use 400 as the round factor for rpm and 5 (or 10 depending upon the year) for your KPA table. Now all of your data will be assigned to a cell that corresponds to the VE table and you'll have 3 columns of new data: rounded rpm, rounded KPA, and average STRIMS.
2) Create a pivot table based upon your new data. Rounded RPM for columns, Rounded KPA for rows, and STRIMS as your data items. If it gives you the sum of the STRIMS, double click where it says "sum of STRIMs" and select average.
SSpdDmon: you can export the data from HPTuners to Excel.
yes i know pivot tables are the way to do this in excel, but they're very interactive, you gotta go through the full process manually, no way to paste numbers, hit 'go' and have it pop out at you. or can you do it this way i just dont know it? i will buy you a very large beer if you got a method for it.
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
A pivot table using MRound data will do that.
1) Create an extra fields for rounded for rpm, rounded KPA, and average STRIMs (or what ever variable you are using; I don't have a wide band). Use 400 as the round factor for rpm and 5 (or 10 depending upon the year) for your KPA table. Now all of your data will be assigned to a cell that corresponds to the VE table and you'll have 3 columns of new data: rounded rpm, rounded KPA, and average STRIMS.
2) Create a pivot table based upon your new data. Rounded RPM for columns, Rounded KPA for rows, and STRIMS as your data items. If it gives you the sum of the STRIMS, double click where it says "sum of STRIMs" and select average.
SSpdDmon: you can export the data from HPTuners to Excel.
1) Create an extra fields for rounded for rpm, rounded KPA, and average STRIMs (or what ever variable you are using; I don't have a wide band). Use 400 as the round factor for rpm and 5 (or 10 depending upon the year) for your KPA table. Now all of your data will be assigned to a cell that corresponds to the VE table and you'll have 3 columns of new data: rounded rpm, rounded KPA, and average STRIMS.
2) Create a pivot table based upon your new data. Rounded RPM for columns, Rounded KPA for rows, and STRIMS as your data items. If it gives you the sum of the STRIMS, double click where it says "sum of STRIMs" and select average.
SSpdDmon: you can export the data from HPTuners to Excel.
Red: I'm not sure I understand the question. Is it the pivot table that is the problem or is loading the new VE data back into HPT with a copy and paste the issue? The pivot table is literally about 5 clicks and 3 drags of the mouse.
I haven't touched my tune in a year, so I'm rusty with the software, but IIRC you can copy and paste your VE table between Excel and HPT.
You're right that it is not as automatic as it should be, but the process should take about 10 - 15 minutes from the time you export the data into excel from HPT to when you have a new VE table to paste into HPT.
I haven't touched my tune in a year, so I'm rusty with the software, but IIRC you can copy and paste your VE table between Excel and HPT.
You're right that it is not as automatic as it should be, but the process should take about 10 - 15 minutes from the time you export the data into excel from HPT to when you have a new VE table to paste into HPT.
i guess my annoyance with it is if it's always the same 5 clicks and 3 drags, why can't it just be there permanently and we should be able to add different data. 15 mins of dicking with software is entirely too much when tuning, especially when you're on a laptop in a middle of nowhere. add sunlight and trying to drag things around with the laptop nipple/touchpad, and it's an error prone nightmare.
so no automated way? oh well...
so no automated way? oh well...
once the pivot table is set up, you can put new data in and update with a click of a button.
I see your frustration, but I remember having to write programs to do most functions that Excel now does, so its all relative.
I see your frustration, but I remember having to write programs to do most functions that Excel now does, so its all relative.
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
once the pivot table is set up, you can put new data in and update with a click of a button.