Frost

iTrader: (45)

Wtf?? 100 x .70 = 30 + 100 + 130 .....this is NOT an equation, it's unbalanced. Work to the left and then the right of equals and get:
70 = 260

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I did have an altered injector offset table when I tried your way. But, I highly doubt it was the culprit for the rich issue. I say that for several reasons:
1) I've seen rich-to-lean vs RPM issues (like Frost) with stock injector cars when tuning your way.
2) I've seen multiple posts here and other places claiming these injectors have an offset of roughly 0.8 miliseconds at 12V, which is roughly a 30% increase in offset over stock.
3) My changes were only a 20% increase....meaning at 14V, I added roughly 0.076 miliseconds.

Math: (0.379938)*(0.2)=0.075988ms (0.379938)+(0.075988)=0.455925ms
So, I went from a 0.0038 second offset (stock) to a 0.0046 second offset at 14V.

I did it in my SD tune too, which is working fine. It's a little rich down low because I have yet to dial in that part of the VE table. If I'm in decel, I'm into DFCO after 3 seconds. So, it's not too big of a deal. What I did notice after the change was my WOT AFR lean out a little. It wanted more fuel with the new offsets. So, I made the adjustment and my butt dyno says it's better.

LS1curious

I wasn't putting a specific formula out there. Just giving an example of how you could work a percentage and actually be off.

Math is not my gig.

LS1curious

If your tunning using the VE method with a modified OS then who knows whats happening to the PW values. I would go back to my earlier assumption that the injector size is to small for a factory cal.

You know I don't know why I do not specifically have that problem BTW. maybe something is very different in the software between your group and myself.

I had a car come to me about a week ago with the PE enable values set to zero at low TPS. I thought it was odd then i also noticed a few other odd offsets. I had to rework the Cal from scratch with a fresh GM flash. The car was tunned with LS1 edit do you think its possiable you could have a screwy or inccorect table format in the GUI ?

I am sure my memory locations are 100% correct BTW in the software I am using.

can you put the Bin file you where working with in a standard GM bin format ?

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

Well, I started from a stock file (we have lots for EFI Live at www.holdencrazy.com) when I tackled my car (SD w/ stock OS) since the old tune was 'jacked' to say the least. If I can't change an unseen table with my software, then the person I got the stock tune from couldn't see it either. So, I know I started from scratch.

Unfortunately, we don't have the capability to save in .bin format anymore. I think that was a result of the competitive bullsh!t that lies between the software vendors. We can still read .bin files. But, we can't save our tunes as .bin files and because of this, our effective knowledge base has been divided. Too bad they (the software vendors) can't give us that functionality back...I know I'm not the only one who wants that back.

BTW, I'm not trying to call BS on you not knowing why I see the reverse of what you do. But, I can assure you that I haven't made any ludacris changes like setting my PE enable to zero at low TP%. I try to apply logical changes based on my understanding of how the tables interact. Thanks to the generous amount of description coded into EFI Live, I'm able to understand those interactions.

LS1curious

Send me what ya got Pm me for contact info. I should be able to import it.


I know how that goes. No blame here,just curiosity about potential software issues.Seen it a few times.



Well then start the email campaign. My take on it is that there are already to so many vendors out there and the information can be had if you know who to talk to there is really no point in the exclsivity of software providers anymore. Plus it would be nice to be able to cross communicate.




Thats of course assuming that EFI live is actually correct in there understanding of the code itself. its like the VE percentage thing. not really so easy to do considering all the variables that go into the Ve table calculation. I tried for the longest time to come up with a way to resolve the VE tables to its real elemtn Grs/Sec/cyl but came up empty.however the cranking Ve table is actually in Ve pecentages. wierd eh ?

You only work with what your given and I don not fualt anyone for that. Get me a copy of the file let me have a peak at what your doing.

joecar

Agreed.

Zip up the whole thing and send it... I'll like to have wide context, plus I have a source code editor that will do the "sifting" for me (in fact it relies on all the code being there).

The software just provides various ways of displaying the table (for "convenience of the mind")...
I know Paul knows it's not in percent.

Cheers
Joe

LS1curious

ehh the guy who was going to get the info has already been selected.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

Files sent...

For my attempt at your way, I was targeting an AFR of 15:1 for MAPs 20-65kPa, 14.75@70kPa, 14.5@75kPa, 14@80kPa, 13.5@85kPa, and 13:1 for 90-100kPa. For PE, I was targeting 12.6:1 across the board.

For my SD tune, what's commanded by the PCM is the target AFR and the WBO2 is within +/-2% more than 90% of the time.

LS1curious

I can see here where this could be going wrong. Once i get a peak at the files i will know more.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

Another thing....the data I used to make my changes (since all I had was ECT and MAP in that table) was the average AFR readings for each kPa column for RPMs greater than 2,000. Since you said most cams clean up above 2,000 RPMs, I didn't want the data to be skewed by the lower RPMs. Either way, for any given kPa column, the trend was (as I've been saying) it would be rich down low and lean up as RPMs increased in that kPa column. Since I was using data primarily from 2,000~3,500 RPMs, it would start to lean out beyond my target above ~3,000 RPMs.

joecar

Ok, suit yourself...

Viper

iTrader: (6)

I've read this whole thread several times, and it comes down to (for me) that we need proper values for aftermarket injectors BEFORE we can properly start tuning. I have the Ford SVO 42's. I understand wanting to keep some things secret (hard earned knowledge) but imagine how much better we would all be if we were starting out properly with the right values for the injectors. So with that being said I'm very curious what values we should be using......

For reference I've been using the ones posted on page 3 of this post https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...1&page=3&pp=40 since 2005.

LS1curious

treat em like 58-60pph injectors

Viper

iTrader: (6)

So just use the spreadsheet (all that 95% of us have access to) and plug in 58 at 43.5psi?

And Marcin, your overdue for a new post on your blog, love reading it!

LS1curious

yeah basically. I usually recomend using actual siemnes decka injectors becuase there are actual ratings for them out there. Honeslty the avg head cam car could run the 32pph injectors found on the new ls2 and run with stock ls2 injector variables. aside from the issue with hieght and plug its a nice cheap proven injector. and the flow data is accurate

Viper

iTrader: (6)

Thanks, it may be worth it to try the LS2 injectors as it's one thing to have the right values for flow rate vs kpa, but the offsets are an unknown as are default injector pulsewidth and minimum pulsewidth's for the SVO 42's. I used the 3 table values from a 2002 Z06 but they don't match up properly to a SVO 42.

"aside from the issue with hieght and plug its a nice cheap proven injector"

What is the issue, will they fit in my 99 fuel rail? LS6 intake?

Viper

iTrader: (6)

Probably old news to most, but to adapt the LS2 injectors you need these (2nd from bottom) http://www.katechengines.com/street_...tail.php?id=21

and ls2 fuel rails.

marthastewart

iTrader: (1)

This is me in the photo and what I am thinking regarding the conversation.

Going back to page 1, Why would my MAF Airflow not be effected when I do the special mult with the AFR Error? Below 5000 or 6000 hz it changes nicely, above those does no good.

To be tuning or "dialing in" the MAF at 6k hz and up when at WOT should the MAF Airflow vs Output Freq be changed or does the VE or PE dial it in?

LS1curious

the ls2/ls1 has differing mechanical and electrical properties. more akin to what the code was written to control. Those are also a much higher PW precision event to event then the lazzy and slow SVo injectors.