Help with AutoVE tune
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From: Lexington, KY
Help with AutoVE tune I recently installed a 228/232 111 +1 cam, dart heads, ls6 intake, 30 lb svo injectors, pulley, lt's on my 99 Z28. It's an A4, and has a TCI 3500 SSF converter. I also upgraded the operating system to a 2002 to make tuning easier, set my desired idle speeds to 850 when warm, and scaled my IFR table for the bigger injectors.
At first I had trouble getting it to idle. I increased the size of the hole in the tb blade, and also adjusted the tb bumpstop about 4* (I think it still needs more air, my IAC counts are around 90 when warmed up). And I adjusted the desired airflow table using the gm.dynair method.
At this point it idles and I can drive it, but it has the cruise control effect, hunts for idle when coming to a stop, and has some surge/bucking when driving a steady speed and terrible throttle response. My A/F ratio is running 16 - 18 under light throttle, and goes to 11.6 under load.
So I decided to get my A/F inline via the AutoVE tune. But after I load up the AutoVE map and unplug the MAF the car barely runs and I can't drive it. It will not idle on it's own and has horrible bucking/surge @ 30 - 50 mph. Is the VE table so far off that it needs to be closer before I can do this? Is there something else I need to get closer first? Or am I doing something wrong? Is it just not getting enough air?
Any help greatly appreciated.
At first I had trouble getting it to idle. I increased the size of the hole in the tb blade, and also adjusted the tb bumpstop about 4* (I think it still needs more air, my IAC counts are around 90 when warmed up). And I adjusted the desired airflow table using the gm.dynair method.
At this point it idles and I can drive it, but it has the cruise control effect, hunts for idle when coming to a stop, and has some surge/bucking when driving a steady speed and terrible throttle response. My A/F ratio is running 16 - 18 under light throttle, and goes to 11.6 under load.
So I decided to get my A/F inline via the AutoVE tune. But after I load up the AutoVE map and unplug the MAF the car barely runs and I can't drive it. It will not idle on it's own and has horrible bucking/surge @ 30 - 50 mph. Is the VE table so far off that it needs to be closer before I can do this? Is there something else I need to get closer first? Or am I doing something wrong? Is it just not getting enough air?
Any help greatly appreciated.
you need to take fuel out of the VEtable in lower areas and add in the upper range.
i had the same problem in open loop speed density mode and someone gave me a base table to work from, otherwise the car was undrivable.
you should post your tune and the type of tool you are using (efilive / hptuners)
that would help.
i had the same problem in open loop speed density mode and someone gave me a base table to work from, otherwise the car was undrivable.
you should post your tune and the type of tool you are using (efilive / hptuners)
that would help.
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From: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted by RedHardSupra
you're gonna be out of injectors with this combo, upgrade to at least 39s
Interesting, I did alot of research and thought these would be big enough. I'll upgrade if I need to tho.
But what can I do to get it at least driveable as is to do the AutoVE tune for normal driving?
i dont know why people on this board are afraid of injectors bigger than stock. supras come with 550cc injectors and it idles like a lexus. ford greentops (42lb/hr or 440cc) and bluetops (39lb/hr) are still small, they come in lightnings and cobras, so they're obviously meant for daily driving duties.
Originally Posted by RedHardSupra
you're gonna be out of injectors with this combo, upgrade to at least 39s
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Thread Starter
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From: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted by RedHardSupra
i dont know why people on this board are afraid of injectors bigger than stock. supras come with 550cc injectors and it idles like a lexus. ford greentops (42lb/hr or 440cc) and bluetops (39lb/hr) are still small, they come in lightnings and cobras, so they're obviously meant for daily driving duties.
But I think it's safe to say they aren't causing the problem I am having right now.
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From: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted by Ryne @ CMS
hmmm... you are very mistaken, 30 lbs svo injectors, which are around 36 lbs at our fuel pressure, are about perfect for this combo.. i have made 550 rwhp with svo 30 lb injectors, mind you it isnt a good a idea, but gives you an idea.
Originally Posted by Ryne @ CMS
hmmm... you are very mistaken, 30 lbs svo injectors, which are around 36 lbs at our fuel pressure, are about perfect for this combo.. i have made 550 rwhp with svo 30 lb injectors, mind you it isnt a good a idea, but gives you an idea.
IFRnew=30*sqrt(4/3)=34.64 (flows in lb/hr, pressures in bar)
in lb/min it's 0.5773
8 of them will give you 4.61lb/min of fuel.
at 13.0AFR that's enough to match 60.04lb/min of airflow.
our cars usually get about 9hp per lb/min of airflow.
that means 8 30s is good for about 540hp. theoretically.
practically, you need to take off 15% from that for hp to rwhp conversion. then you don't want to work your injectors at 100% either, you want to keep it around 80% duty, so that's 540*.85*.80=367rwhp of SAFE operation. note that most stock fuel pumps and electrical systems wont deliver enough pressure and flow at higher rpm. needless to say, 30s are good for boltons only, unless you like to really push your luck.
well i am not going to get into a technical battle with you....... obviously you do this for a living 
, and i dont. i just now what works, i have seen what works on what power level of the vehicle, i know 30lbers (ie: 36 lbs at our pressure) are fine for that setup, but go ahead and argue....
, and i dont. i just now what works, i have seen what works on what power level of the vehicle, i know 30lbers (ie: 36 lbs at our pressure) are fine for that setup, but go ahead and argue.... 
I have to disagree with you on this one Marcin. 30's are pleanty for a stock-cubed, N/A, H/C LS1. People use the stock 28.8's up to 450rwhp without problems. My 30's show about 80% duty cycle with my setup. I'd say they're perfect for his combo. Yes, he could have more room for future upgrades. But, if he's not planning on going bigger in the future, 30's should be just fine.
Originally Posted by DaveX
I recently installed a 228/232 111 +1 cam, dart heads, ls6 intake, 30 lb svo injectors, pulley, lt's on my 99 Z28. It's an A4, and has a TCI 3500 SSF converter. I also upgraded the operating system to a 2002 to make tuning easier, set my desired idle speeds to 850 when warm, and scaled my IFR table for the bigger injectors.
At first I had trouble getting it to idle. I increased the size of the hole in the tb blade, and also adjusted the tb bumpstop about 4* (I think it still needs more air, my IAC counts are around 90 when warmed up). And I adjusted the desired airflow table using the gm.dynair method.
At this point it idles and I can drive it, but it has the cruise control effect, hunts for idle when coming to a stop, and has some surge/bucking when driving a steady speed and terrible throttle response. My A/F ratio is running 16 - 18 under light throttle, and goes to 11.6 under load.
So I decided to get my A/F inline via the AutoVE tune. But after I load up the AutoVE map and unplug the MAF the car barely runs and I can't drive it. It will not idle on it's own and has horrible bucking/surge @ 30 - 50 mph. Is the VE table so far off that it needs to be closer before I can do this? Is there something else I need to get closer first? Or am I doing something wrong? Is it just not getting enough air?
Any help greatly appreciated.
At first I had trouble getting it to idle. I increased the size of the hole in the tb blade, and also adjusted the tb bumpstop about 4* (I think it still needs more air, my IAC counts are around 90 when warmed up). And I adjusted the desired airflow table using the gm.dynair method.
At this point it idles and I can drive it, but it has the cruise control effect, hunts for idle when coming to a stop, and has some surge/bucking when driving a steady speed and terrible throttle response. My A/F ratio is running 16 - 18 under light throttle, and goes to 11.6 under load.
So I decided to get my A/F inline via the AutoVE tune. But after I load up the AutoVE map and unplug the MAF the car barely runs and I can't drive it. It will not idle on it's own and has horrible bucking/surge @ 30 - 50 mph. Is the VE table so far off that it needs to be closer before I can do this? Is there something else I need to get closer first? Or am I doing something wrong? Is it just not getting enough air?
Any help greatly appreciated.
Here's a tune based on my friend's '99 A4 (232/234 cam) running an '02 OS. I have it setup for you in speed density, !AIR, !EGR, 30#IFR table, etc. The timing might look funny/basic compared to stock. But, give it a chance.
It'd be a good idea to do the RAFIG/RAFPN process after loading this tune. The desired airflow tends to differ a little car to car.Hope this helps some.
Jeff
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From: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Dave,
Here's a tune based on my friend's '99 A4 (232/234 cam) running an '02 OS. I have it setup for you in speed density, !AIR, !EGR, 30#IFR table, etc. The timing might look funny/basic compared to stock. But, give it a chance. It'd be a good idea to do the RAFIG/RAFPN process after loading this tune. The desired airflow tends to differ a little car to car.
Hope this helps some.
Jeff
Here's a tune based on my friend's '99 A4 (232/234 cam) running an '02 OS. I have it setup for you in speed density, !AIR, !EGR, 30#IFR table, etc. The timing might look funny/basic compared to stock. But, give it a chance.
It'd be a good idea to do the RAFIG/RAFPN process after loading this tune. The desired airflow tends to differ a little car to car.Hope this helps some.
Jeff
Dave
