Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

Thanks man, I'm about to check it out. I just wanted to state that my actual AFR was no where near 16+ at WOT. It stayed somewhere in the low 11's to mid 13's. I don't doubt that 16+ was commanded though. Hopefully you guys can get me on the right track

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I get lost when talking about EQ and AFR. The AFR readings I've started were from my dashboard in the tune tool. Actual "LM1" VS Commanded. It has been a long time since I went over the part of the tutorial that explains setting up filters. I'll try to go over it again and see if I can figure out how to set those up. It may be possible that the large peaks are caused by me hitting only one cell and the fact that I don't know what I'm doing with the smoothing.

Could you explain how you know .87 EQ = 12.8 AFR?

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

That's what I thought but there is an easy way to get rid of this confusion. OEM Engineers like to think in terms of EQ RATIO because thats how much they have to change the fueling to solve the problem.

Open Tune Tool. Press [ALT] + [ENTER]. On the page that shows up change that to commanded fuel ratios. NOT EQ Ratio. That should help.

EQ ratio is a comparison of how close you are to your goal so......

If 14.63 is stoch:

14.63 actual
------------- = 1 (BEN)
14.63 commanded



12.8 commanded
---------------- = .8749 EQ RATIO
14.63 stoich


AND

15.6 AFR commanded
-------------------- = 1.066
14.63 AFR stoich


To get EQ ratio it is
commanded / stoich

To get AFR from EQ it is
Stoich*EQ RATIO

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I get it now! Thanks

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure what you mean by mod B3606 and B3607 so that they can't move from what I want. Should I just set them both the same

Also you were correct about the filters. The only filter I'm using is to exclude data frams- {SAE.TP.%} is changing more than 5.00% per 100 ms OR {SAE.ECT.F} is less than or equal to 178.00*F

I just figured out that you have to apply the filter after every log. I thought once you set the filter the data you got was already filtered. Shows how much I know Would you mind helping me set up the other filters that I need? I tried and I'm lost on what Parameters to choose.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Just leave B3606 and B3607 at what I put in the tune that I uploaded, don't worry about those anymore, you won't have to touch them ever if you plan on sticking with an OLSD tune.

Setting up the filters is very easy. There are a few general filters that you should be logging, too low rpms (like during stalling/sumbling), low temps driving while warming up, too fast throttle changes, "out of range" wideband AFR readings (such as when letting off throttle or transitions between shifting). You can set that up by opening the "Edit data filters..." button under the Maps tab. Select the "filter control" which will be exclude data frames, include...etc..., select the parameter you would like to filter (Wideband for example), then select Filter type : greater than, less than etc..., input the parameters you would like to include/exclude, then select join using "and" or "or" to combine each filter or keep in seperate.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

Ok this is what I have now for filters...

Exclude data frames :

{SAE.TP.%} is changing more than 5.00% per 100 ms OR
{SAE.ECT.F} is less than or equal to 178.00*F OR
{SAE.RPM.rpm} is less than 600.00 RPM OR
{CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR} is greater than or equal to 18.00 AFR OR
{EXT.AD1.V} is less than 12.00 V OR
{GM.KR.Deg} is greater than 1.00 Degrees

Thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff. This is just what I've been needing.


Edit: I think something is wrong with those filters. I just applyed them to one of my AutoVE logs and it wiped out the whole thing.

Edit again...It was the {EXT.AD1.V} less than 12.00 V one that wiped out the map. I'm guessing that isn't talking about battery voltage.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

you need to get rid of the 12 v one, don't worry about the voltage right now, and also get ride of the exclude greater than 1 degrees of KR. Are you getting KR right now? Your spark timings are REALLY low? Can you give more info on your setup? CR, cam specs, gas ure using etc?

Thanks!
Adrian

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

{EXT.AD1.V} is the external analog voltage of the EFI Live unit on channel 1. Battery voltage is {GM.VOLTS} if you want to log it.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I just got back testing that new tune you gave me. Great job man

Commanded is doing just what I wanted. Actual is a good bit lower than commanded at times but it looks very safe to me. For the most part Actual is staying in the 11's I did see a little bit of KR twice. The most I saw was 2.9. I'm thinking it might be false though. Both times it happened when I shifted hard and got a bit of wheel hop.

If I remember right the cam specs are 236/247 .650/.657 114 LSA,
AFR 225 heads with 62cc combustion chambers, -18 CC pistons, with the gasket I used it should come out real close to 9:1 compression. Running 93 octane pump gas. I'm no expert but I don't see how it could get any KR with this setup and the timming I'm running at WOT.

I did find another problem unrelated to tunning though. It doesn't want to shift into second at high RPM's...only second

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Good deal. The reason why its running much richer than its commanding is because you need to then adjust your VE table to compensate for the difference in commanded and actual. That is done with your BEN table, but I'm sure you know how to do that now.
As far as your KR, it does appear to be false, so I wouldn't worry about it. If you're seeing it during a hard run, without any shifting or wheel spin, it would most likely be real.

Now all you have to do is go through and give your VE table a working over! Are you having any driveability/stumbling/stalling issues? Secondly, why on earth do you have your idle set at 1650?! lol. We can get that down to 800 easy....

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, the VE table makes much more since now that I understand B3605. Everything seems right in line with what it should be. The BEN table is around .85 for most cells. Makes since with the actual AFR being lower than what is commanded. I think with a few AutoVE cycles I'll have the VE table fairly close. Driveability isn't the best. It doesn't like to idle untill it gets warmed up. It surges at low rpms unless I'm on the gas pretty good and it does stall sometimes. If I lower the idle it will stall when comming to a stop. It is actually idleing around 1100 with it set at 1650. Sitting still I can drop the idle down to 800 and it idles fine but every time I try to drive the car with it like that it will die when I come to a stop.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

I need you to try something for me, from a complete cold start up, log from startup until complete warm up with the following PID list...just change the .zip to .pid and load it through the Scan tool under the PID tab.

Once you have that, post up the log file.

What throttlebody are you using, and is there a hole drilled in the throttle plate?

There is so much more to the VE table than understanding the commanded AFR table But, you'll learn through time.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Any luck?

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

Sorry man, I have been away from home for the past couple days so I haven't been able to mess with the car. I'm using the stock throttle body that I ported myself. I did drill the hole out in the throttle blade. It took me a couple hours to get it to idle. It wouldn't even idle with the ICA commanded all the way open so I drilled it out a little. Still wouldn't idle so I drilled it out a little more... With the idle set at 1650 it idles around 1100. I can command the idle down and it runs fine but it will stall when I push in the clutch and get on the brakes like comming up to a stop sign.

I'll try to log a cold start with those pids after work. I'm on my lunch hour right now.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

This is a cold start with your pid selection. I didn't touch the throttle till it was warmed up.

ColdStart.efi

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Alright, I went through and made quite a few changes. I copied over from my own tune file all the idle tables. I've found that the stock settings on a cammed vehicle are too much and can cause too much swinging in the idle which will cause stumbling. Do a compare and see all the changes I made. I also copied over my timing tables and lowered the WOT timings to 19 where you had them on your tune.
You're also FAR too rich at idle, and this is probably where you are having most of your problems with stumbling, its flooding out the motor. When you're tuning for idle, there are three things that you should work on first. First and most importantly is the AFR at idle, make sure you have that set. Second is to combat your RAFIG, or desired airflows at idle. Lastly is your spark timing at idle.
Once you upload the new tune, do another cold start log, but this time don't mess with the throttle at all, just log the whole thing from start to finish. You should be idling close to your set idle of 1650. First thing I need for you to do though is to adjust your VE table at idle. So, do a cold start up and log. Then filter out any data below 170 F, and then adjust your VE table at idle. Then do another log after you upload your corrected VE table at idle, and send the initial cold start log and the post VE table adjustment log my way along with the updated tune from you.

Best,
Adrian

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

The idle AFR was pretty close before you fixed my commanded AFR with that last tune. It was staying around 14.3-15.2 at idle. I haven't had a chance to do any autoVE tunning since then. The stumbling/stalling I was talking about was before that last tune you gave me. Either way I know it still need a lot of work.

I understand doing the AutoVE stuff to get the AFR correct at idle. Could you explain what RAFIG is and what I should do to it?

Ok, so I'm going to load that tune into it that you just gave me and I'm going to start it up. Wait till it gets to 170* and start logging my BENs. Then I'll save that log, multiply the cells that it is in at idle by that BEN factor, reflash. Then wait till it cools down again and make you another cold start log with my now corrected idle AFR....right? I hope so lol.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I loaded that tune into the PCM and started logging at 170*. Strangely it is running a bit lean now once it warms up. If you watch you will notice the AFR is pretty close when I start logging at 170* but as the car warms up more it leans out some. Intake air temps go up pretty fast just sitting at idle. That might be partly due to the metal boost pipe getting heat soaked. I pulled one of the pipes out between the intake and intercooler and put the air filter on it...

Here is the log
update_0000_Log.efi

Here is the new tune file with the VE table updated from that log.
402_PE3500_update_0001.tun

As soon as the car cools down I will flash that new tune in and make a log recording from startup.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

RAFIG is "Running airflow in gear", its basically telling the PCM how much air the vehicle needs to idle at given the current temp it is at. Whenever you change ANYTHING that concerns the idle, you have to readjust your RAFIG tables. This is done with the PID list that I gave you, and then you need to load the RAFIG map into the scan tool. It logs the correction to the idle airflow that PCM is doing to keep the idle stable, and this is the amount that is added to the Desired airflow table in the tune.

You've got it right so far! Keep it up. I hope you're learning something!