NC01TA

I bought a 2020 Challenger R/T Shaker (Go Mango) with the 5.7L Hemi and of course compared it to my Trans Am. Despite the 19 years in age difference and the large size of the Dodge, I find them similar performance wise. I'm sure the larger Hemi version would blow away the T/A but it's interesting to see how well our Trans Ams hold up over two decades. The Challenger is about 600 pounds heavier which offsets it's 372 HP vs the 310 (supposedly) in the T/A. It feels like the Dodge is a bit quicker but it has zero miles vs the 70k on the LS1. I ordered the high performance suspension package to help with the handling and the red caliper Brembo brakes were another add-on. These cars are definitely a throwback to the early 70's Challengers and Cudas and the Hemi exhaust sound is sweet. The Trans Am remains my favorite car but I would really like the Challenger to equal that feeling over the years. I was thinking new Camaro but I owned a '74 Cuda 360 a long time ago and this is a trip down memory lane. Some photos below.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

Sharp car! I've always liked them...... I'm still teetering on retiring the goat for 17/18 SS Camaro. But I'd be lying if I do t catch my self staring at challengers when I see one cruising through town.....extra points when the exhaust is audible haha

68Formula

Love the Challengers.

Amazing how much bigger the new pony cars are. That's a sweet Cuda btw.

98CayenneT/A

Nice looking cars.

As far as performance.... with the Trans Am having a A4 and stock converter the Challenger has a big advantage with the 8 speed. They probably put similar power to the wheels and if you were to ONLY add a converter to your Bird to offset the Challengers 8 speed, the Bird would work it over good.

lumen8

I had a modded 72 chally in Australia with a 440, I know the new ones have a taller body / roof line than the old ones, but despite that its good to see them live on, and when I was in the states a few years back couldnt help but notice the new ones were everywhere, there must be over a million of them out there now.

But yes the 4th gens are relatively light, and probably much less frontal area too, the roofline is very low so I think they do more with less HP, and fit large tires too without changing too much , so they can still give new stuff a run for its money with light mods.

Ive been thinking what would an LS be like with a new 8 or 10 speed auto behind it, perhaps conversion boxes will become a thing one day. Ive watched some LT1 vettes going down the 1/4 and they run some good ET's with less than 500hp, because the rpm is right up there as soon as they launch and it stays there because of the gearing. Its kinda like having a 5k stall , without having a 5k stall.

Craaag

That's a beauty of a pair! I've got a 2009 R/T challenger with the A5 auto and it is a big heavy car almost pick up truck like. I used to own Fbodys not an LS1 but an LT1 but we are talking 20 yrs ago. I find myself looking at fbody adds again and getting the itch.

So seeing your post i'll ask you as its first hand current advise. if you could only have 1 of those 2 cars, considering all things, not just 0-60 but everything else each has to offer which would you keep?

I can have both one day but my mortgage still has 4 yrs to go lol. I always wanted an LS1 WS6 but after 2002 when GM dropped the fbody my wadering eyes strayed to Mopar and its been there up till last year when i've started seeing more fbody exposure and its making me nostalgic. Remembering my 20's when I owned a 97 Z28 and an 88 GTA.

what's with these WS6 prices though? Is it just the time of the year or has this been the normal past few years. Here in Canada I'm seeing low km WS6 40k-50k!!!

LS1 TJ

So I'm a big time LS guy for my hot rods but need? a convertible for long distance drives. We upgraded from our 14 Mustang GT 5.0/6 speed convertible last fall to a 20 Mustang GT convertible with a 5.0/10 speed auto combo. The the 5.0/10 speed combo is sweet. I/we just got tired of shifting.
Too bad Dodge has never offered a vert in the Challenge

Craaag

I think I'd agree with that. I "want" 6 spd but just from cruising around in my big blue boat lol I find I don't even want to use that automatic tranny manual shift feature dodge has. The diablo tuner made the automatic a little more fun seems to hold the rpms better not sure if the auto LS cars have the same tuning ability due to the age?? I think thats the main manual feature i like is controlling shift points.

I've noticed auto LS cars are much cheaper too so I may end up that route anyways.

Y2K_Frenzy

The Old car will be more of a “hobby car” where you’ll need to replace this that and the other. It’ll also be like riding around in a 25 year old car with 25 year old car tech. The brakes and the lights will be noticeably crappier than the latest econo-box. It’s like going back in time when you get in which is part of its appeal and also why I wouldn’t really want to daily drive one. Basically, it’s a toy.
The newer car will be like having a newer car and possibly a little mundane unless you’re driving it hard. Which isn’t bad.
Aside from the performance specs they’re sort of an apples to oranges comparison.
I’ve never ridden in a Challenger but I’d bet the farm that the WS6 will have a lot more creaks and rattles.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I've driven a couple of ~2019+ econoboxes recently, let me tell you the 4th gen LS1 brakes are superior even in stock form. I think the problem is that most folks don't keep up on brake fluid changes, or things like the flex hoses have gotten soft, etc. Obviously I'm not comparing them to new V8 muscle cars, just work-a-day new-ish transportation appliances that I've driven...and those are not better.

That's how I feel about my '70s cars, but 4th gens don't yet strike me as being too old to be anything but a toy. I would probably still be daily driving one if winters here didn't destroy my last DD 4th gen.

Y2K_Frenzy

I have to say, “you gotta be kidding about old tech brakes being as good.” They don’t have near the initial bite like anything modern that I’ve driven. With the new stuff if you barely tap the brakes it’ll make you lean forward in your seat. When we first got my Wife’s Jeep I had to get used to the brakes. All it takes is a tap of the pedal to “brake check” someone, and I did it on accident the first couple taps. You really have to get on the brakes to do the same in my Camaro. The old stuff is riding on relatively small rotors and I think two piston calipers might be a thing of the past. Hyundai Elantra’s have 12” rotors now for Pete’s sake.
After new pads, rotors, and a brake flush my 29 year old Mustang and my 24 year old Camaro have the same lame “bite” as before. But I guess you can only except so much with 12” rotors and two piston calipers.
*Edit*
For comparison sake a 2012 Taurus stops from 60-0 mph in 120 feet. I believe they say the F body does it in about 130 feet. The 2012’s tires probably helped some vs the tires tested in ‘98 on the Camaro but ten feet sounds like a lot.

2012 Ford Taurus

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Not kidding.

Sounds like your Camaro might need some additional brake system refreshing if they feel that weak. Perhaps some new hoses, and/or maybe the master is a bit gummed up from previous old fluid? I know you've had some trouble with the transmission, even with low miles, due to whatever conditions the car sat in, so maybe the brake hydraulics suffered a bit as well?

We bought my wife's 2012 Malibu with just 1,076 miles on it, so basically brand new. 60-0 specs are listed at 122 feet for this car, but its brakes have never felt as good at high speed (60+ mph) compared to my '98 Z28 with OE hardware. Same is true in comparison to my 2010 Malibu. Comparing to an even newer example, I've recently driven my neighbor's 2019 Traverse with ~30k miles on an airport run - again, at high speed it doesn't feel as confident about braking as my '98 Z28 (which I just drove on that same road last Thursday). The '19 Traverse and an LS1 Camaro are rated within ~1 foot of each other (130 vs. 129 feet, respectively).

I will say that my '98 Z28 brakes take a bit more pedal travel to get to the "meat" of their stopping power but, once there, they definitely feel like they have more bite at high speeds than the examples mentioned above. The published data on all examples above doesn't really account for tire differences, repeated stops, and/or stops above 60mph which might also show some different strengths/weaknesses. FWIW, I've had 17" wheels with 275 or 285mm tires on all of my 4th gens for the last couple of decades, so I don't even remember if there was a noticeable difference in hard braking response vs. the 16"/245mm tire setup.

Again, I'm not comparing them to the stopping power of the latest performance cars, but if a normal, 5-10 year old work-a-day transportation appliance feels like it has vastly superior stopping power compared to your LS1 Camaro, then your braking system likely still needs some attention. If you want to feel a vast, night-and-day difference in braking power, come visit me here in IL and you can drive my '74 Cutlass back-to-back with something new. It will absolutely redefine your idea of "outdated brakes".

LS1 TJ

We bought a 94 Z28 new and thought it was a great car until winter hit. LOL.
Not apples to apples but my current hot rod project a 80 Camaro that is more less done. I am the second owner. I installed a LS3/4L60E combo. C5 brakes. Cream puff 28K original car. Sub frame off resto.
Drives great. Not slow.
But the 20 Mustang is light years ahead of the of the Camaro driving wise. I'm its sure similar to comparing our 94 Camaro to our 20 Mustang.
Couple of pics. Yeah the plastic hood scoop is gone.

Y2K_Frenzy

My Camaros’ braking system might could use some TLC or maybe I’m just used to “better” brakes. I bet it’s a combination of the two. They say my 6k lb truck does 60-0 mph in 134.9 feet and our SUV/CUV that has a curb weight over 4,700 lbs does it in 124 feet (the “sporty” trim level does it in 114’). I wasn’t sure if those are “good” or “bad” distances so I looked up what an ‘09 Challenger RT did it in for comparisons sake. They said it has a curb weight of 4k lbs and it took 135 feet to stop it from 60 mph. Our truck is a ‘17 and our SUV is a ‘22. Time marches on.

Craaag

09 SRT8 Challenger (they came with brembos 4 or 6 piston)? (Or both 6 front 4 rear)? 4140 lbs 110 ft from 60. Not so much in the age as in what they are using for brakes, me thinks.

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

I have a friend with an auto 392 Challenger and the fastest he drove the car was 12.4 in the quarter. And he's no slouch of a driver as he holds two NHRA Funny Car championships. (I was told by someone that the Salem Ohio track is a slow track by about 2/10ths).

Y2K_Frenzy

That’s just the thing. Giant rotors and calipers weren’t an OEM thing for basic vehicles in the “old days” when the WS6 was new. Comparing what is offered now versus what was offered back then is what makes it an age thing. Back in the day if you had a sports car with 13” rotors and 4 pistons you were doing big things. A ‘99 Tahoe (random older big vehicle) came with I believe 11.65” front rotors. My ’22 smaller suv crossover thing-a-ma-bob has 13.8” rotors in the front which is smallest option for the model (mundane vehicle). The sporty one has big-azz 15.75” rotors with Brembo 6 piston calipers. I imagine the SRT brakes would be on a whole other planet compared to the WS6’s. New vs old tech.

NC01TA

Thank you!! That's cool to see this old thread revived.

That is a really difficult question to answer. Which one would I choose?? I've had the Trans Am since 'new' and it has survived two Corvettes, a Porsche 911, a BMW and many more rides. It is my all-time favorite car. However, if I could only have one car I would have to keep the Dodge. Why? I really do like it a lot as i stated in my first post and the options I chose were absolutely the right ones as the years roll by. I have no need for anything. Power? Check. Suspension? Check. Brembos? Check. Looks? Check? Comfort? Check. MDS? SUCKS!!!! I use manual mode and 'sport' mode 99% of the time I am in the car. Thank heavens for these important choices. I also have to think about my wife who would need a newer car vs one that is now 23 years old. The extended warranty is still good for a few more years too. Perhaps ask me in 3 more years. I might just choose the Trans Am. I'm happy that I can swing both but I am older and have been retired for many years. I actually have a 3rd too, a 2014 Mustang GT 'vert which is the better performer of the 3 with it's 420 HP Coyote. The handling is better too but it has only 14k miles on it so is kind of 'like new' even at 10 years old. The ride however is the lousiest of the 3 and the seats are really hard in comparison.
My current family below taken back in 2022: It's still the same today.

NC01TA

There is a builder in FL that makes convertibles after the fact and it's about $25k to have it done. My wife and I enjoy convertibles too, and if Dodge had offered one when I bought this one, I'm sure I would have opted for that.
Our car choices are quite similar. I could not shift the 5 speed anymore (left knee issues) and had to sell my 2007 Mustang GT 'vert in 2022. We upgraded to the A6 2014 GT I have pictured above. The performance from the 4.6 to 5.0 is night and day.

Craaag

Hopefully I can post back here 1 day with my 09 Challenger and a beautiful WS6 Trans am or SS Camaro beside it like yours.
i think I cant quite give up my challenger much for the same reasons you stated.

I knowvyounare still under warranty but the diablo i3 tuner disabled the MDS and im so happy with it now!