Cracked interior door panel...:( *DON'T QUOTE PICS!
11-25-2007, 11:43 AM
#303
Have not checked my car its in storage now,dreaded it. Car has only 12,000 original miles on it. Maybe am lucky still and was going to install new speakers in the door so will for sure try some fixes like the staple removal thing.
I had another similar problem in my 99 trans am that might help you guys some if you have the same problem. I was getting hairline cracks on my top dash drivers side think by the air duct hole. They were subtle but kept happening .My car got kenny brown double diamond subframe connnectors when new and have a shock tower brace. Gm did replace that top dash piece twice and it cracked again. I talked to gm and we wound up cutting off some pin in that location that seemed to be making it crack.Replaced the pin with circular velcro and no cracks since.
Just a heads up if you guys have that problem. Its bad enough we have crappy window motors,crappy headlight gears, crappy door panels..oh well. nothing is perfect.
I never did see these cracks on my 96z28 or my 96 or 97 trans ams. I don't want to get depresssed now so going to look at my 99 in spring when do the speakers.
I had another similar problem in my 99 trans am that might help you guys some if you have the same problem. I was getting hairline cracks on my top dash drivers side think by the air duct hole. They were subtle but kept happening .My car got kenny brown double diamond subframe connnectors when new and have a shock tower brace. Gm did replace that top dash piece twice and it cracked again. I talked to gm and we wound up cutting off some pin in that location that seemed to be making it crack.Replaced the pin with circular velcro and no cracks since.
Just a heads up if you guys have that problem. Its bad enough we have crappy window motors,crappy headlight gears, crappy door panels..oh well. nothing is perfect.
I never did see these cracks on my 96z28 or my 96 or 97 trans ams. I don't want to get depresssed now so going to look at my 99 in spring when do the speakers.
12-01-2007, 11:56 AM
#304
My 99 has no cracks it seems. Maybe its combination of using the windows in the cold weather. My car is stored for winter months. It has even been sitting like three years of its life without being driven in a unheated garage.
I don't think just sitting there ine cold cracks them seems to be stress maybe from opening and closing the windows maybe all the way down in cold weather is my bet. I will still look at back of panels when do stereo and likely reinforce and take out some staples.
I don't think just sitting there ine cold cracks them seems to be stress maybe from opening and closing the windows maybe all the way down in cold weather is my bet. I will still look at back of panels when do stereo and likely reinforce and take out some staples.
12-01-2007, 02:58 PM
#305
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Hey, whoever has ANY cracks, fix them immediately. Mine looked like the pic above. I let it go as it wasnt that noticeable. I do not roll my windows often at all, whether cold or hot outiside. I cant remember the last time I rolled them down. I do believe the panles are under stress, as one day,, all by itself, the crack that looked like above split all at one time all the way to the leather part, AND it spread. Wide enough to fit the tip of a pen. It is nasty. And it did it while sitting for a week or more. 
12-01-2007, 07:51 PM
#306
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Hey, whoever has ANY cracks, fix them immediately. Mine looked like the pic above. I let it go as it wasnt that noticeable. I do not roll my windows often at all, whether cold or hot outiside. I cant remember the last time I rolled them down. I do believe the panles are under stress, as one day,, all by itself, the crack that looked like above split all at one time all the way to the leather part, AND it spread. Wide enough to fit the tip of a pen. It is nasty. And it did it while sitting for a week or more.
Use my guide, its why I made it. Even if you have no mechanical knowledge, the guide is complete enough to guide you through.
See the Write up here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=159
Good luck guys
01-06-2008, 11:08 PM
#311
The interior plastic on our cars shrink. There was a TSB out years ago for a shrinkage problem causing the back seat paneling to pull apart. (The fix was to screw down the plastic in another place behind the speaker grille.)
The pictures above show a gap in the crack. Gaps are only caused by tension in the panel. (Creases are caused by compression.) If windows, door slamming, or other bending induced forces were at work, the crack would not have a gap. (Bending causes both tension and compression - so the tension would pull the crack apart initially, but the gap would disappear when the bending force was removed.)
BTW - the door panels and pain-in-the-*** door fasteners are there to allow the door panel to move, "float," and bend independently of the door and structure of the car. You'll only see problems when the forces exerted on the panel exceed the "play" in the fastening system. (Door and glass movements would not induce this effect.)
Heat and UV light cause shrinking and cold weather makes the plastic more brittle - so it would be common for the plastic to finally give way during a cold snap. I think the staple comment above is on to the cause of the cracks. Shrinkage + a flaw introduced by a staple would breed a crack.
In order to resolve the problem, one would need to do one of two things: reinforce the area where the crack is (suggested above) or better-yet, eliminate the tension causing the crack. If you remove the panel fastner in the upper rear part of the door, it should allow the top of the door to "float" more easily over the door as the plastic shrinks. (To test this theory, remove your panel. If the gap goes away, you'll need to change your fastening system to eliminate the pressure pulling the gap open.)
If a door fastener change gets rid of the gap permanently, you should be able to glue the crack back together. If you check the plastic's molded symbol on the back of the part, you can match it up to the proper adhesive. If I recall correctly, super glue is the proper type of adhesive for the tan plastic trim pieces.
I don't have cracks yet, but will definitely be removing my upper rear door fastener and replacing it with some Velcro.
The pictures above show a gap in the crack. Gaps are only caused by tension in the panel. (Creases are caused by compression.) If windows, door slamming, or other bending induced forces were at work, the crack would not have a gap. (Bending causes both tension and compression - so the tension would pull the crack apart initially, but the gap would disappear when the bending force was removed.)
BTW - the door panels and pain-in-the-*** door fasteners are there to allow the door panel to move, "float," and bend independently of the door and structure of the car. You'll only see problems when the forces exerted on the panel exceed the "play" in the fastening system. (Door and glass movements would not induce this effect.)
Heat and UV light cause shrinking and cold weather makes the plastic more brittle - so it would be common for the plastic to finally give way during a cold snap. I think the staple comment above is on to the cause of the cracks. Shrinkage + a flaw introduced by a staple would breed a crack.
In order to resolve the problem, one would need to do one of two things: reinforce the area where the crack is (suggested above) or better-yet, eliminate the tension causing the crack. If you remove the panel fastner in the upper rear part of the door, it should allow the top of the door to "float" more easily over the door as the plastic shrinks. (To test this theory, remove your panel. If the gap goes away, you'll need to change your fastening system to eliminate the pressure pulling the gap open.)
If a door fastener change gets rid of the gap permanently, you should be able to glue the crack back together. If you check the plastic's molded symbol on the back of the part, you can match it up to the proper adhesive. If I recall correctly, super glue is the proper type of adhesive for the tan plastic trim pieces.
I don't have cracks yet, but will definitely be removing my upper rear door fastener and replacing it with some Velcro.
01-08-2008, 08:28 PM
#312
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After repairing mine it seems obvious what the cause is. The window felt is on a flat steel bar that is stapled to the door panel. Something in the assembly process is causing the end of the door panel to flex before the last two staples are installed. Since the steel will not flex, the plastic in now in a bind.
When I removed the last two staples, the panel relaxed back to its normal position. I then drilled new holes in the plastic, using the existing holes in the metal piece as guides and reinstalled the staples, bending them by hand.
(I also added epoxy to the cracks.)
The door panel is no longer stressed.
There is no doubt that this is a production problem and is not a design issue, although, if the notch in the plastic was not there, it probably would not crack at, all even though it is in a bind. (There is a notch cut out right where the cracks form)
When I removed the last two staples, the panel relaxed back to its normal position. I then drilled new holes in the plastic, using the existing holes in the metal piece as guides and reinstalled the staples, bending them by hand.
(I also added epoxy to the cracks.)
The door panel is no longer stressed.
There is no doubt that this is a production problem and is not a design issue, although, if the notch in the plastic was not there, it probably would not crack at, all even though it is in a bind. (There is a notch cut out right where the cracks form)
01-08-2008, 08:57 PM
#313
Uhhh - scratch that... The interior plastic on our cars shrink. There was a TSB out years ago for a shrinkage problem causing the back seat paneling to pull apart. (The fix was to screw down the plastic in another place behind the speaker grille.)
The pictures above show a gap in the crack. Gaps are only caused by tension in the panel. (Creases are caused by compression.) If windows, door slamming, or other bending induced forces were at work, the crack would not have a gap. (Bending causes both tension and compression - so the tension would pull the crack apart initially, but the gap would disappear when the bending force was removed.)
BTW - the door panels and pain-in-the-*** door fasteners are there to allow the door panel to move, "float," and bend independently of the door and structure of the car. You'll only see problems when the forces exerted on the panel exceed the "play" in the fastening system. (Door and glass movements would not induce this effect.)
Heat and UV light cause shrinking and cold weather makes the plastic more brittle - so it would be common for the plastic to finally give way during a cold snap. I think the staple comment above is on to the cause of the cracks. Shrinkage + a flaw introduced by a staple would breed a crack.
In order to resolve the problem, one would need to do one of two things: reinforce the area where the crack is (suggested above) or better-yet, eliminate the tension causing the crack. If you remove the panel fastner in the upper rear part of the door, it should allow the top of the door to "float" more easily over the door as the plastic shrinks. (To test this theory, remove your panel. If the gap goes away, you'll need to change your fastening system to eliminate the pressure pulling the gap open.)
If a door fastener change gets rid of the gap permanently, you should be able to glue the crack back together. If you check the plastic's molded symbol on the back of the part, you can match it up to the proper adhesive. If I recall correctly, super glue is the proper type of adhesive for the tan plastic trim pieces.
I don't have cracks yet, but will definitely be removing my upper rear door fastener and replacing it with some Velcro.
The pictures above show a gap in the crack. Gaps are only caused by tension in the panel. (Creases are caused by compression.) If windows, door slamming, or other bending induced forces were at work, the crack would not have a gap. (Bending causes both tension and compression - so the tension would pull the crack apart initially, but the gap would disappear when the bending force was removed.)
BTW - the door panels and pain-in-the-*** door fasteners are there to allow the door panel to move, "float," and bend independently of the door and structure of the car. You'll only see problems when the forces exerted on the panel exceed the "play" in the fastening system. (Door and glass movements would not induce this effect.)
Heat and UV light cause shrinking and cold weather makes the plastic more brittle - so it would be common for the plastic to finally give way during a cold snap. I think the staple comment above is on to the cause of the cracks. Shrinkage + a flaw introduced by a staple would breed a crack.
In order to resolve the problem, one would need to do one of two things: reinforce the area where the crack is (suggested above) or better-yet, eliminate the tension causing the crack. If you remove the panel fastner in the upper rear part of the door, it should allow the top of the door to "float" more easily over the door as the plastic shrinks. (To test this theory, remove your panel. If the gap goes away, you'll need to change your fastening system to eliminate the pressure pulling the gap open.)
If a door fastener change gets rid of the gap permanently, you should be able to glue the crack back together. If you check the plastic's molded symbol on the back of the part, you can match it up to the proper adhesive. If I recall correctly, super glue is the proper type of adhesive for the tan plastic trim pieces.
I don't have cracks yet, but will definitely be removing my upper rear door fastener and replacing it with some Velcro.
Scratch that - I took another look and I actually have the cracks as well. In my case, its definitely not shrinkage and definitely not an issue with the panel floating on the door.
On my car (and on pictures of newer cracks forming) there is a buckle/dimple in the panel. If you look at the black weatherstripping, you may notice a U-shaped dip in the plastic. The tears in the panel look to be generally forming at the base of the "U," where the tension is the greatest. I assume the white color is where the plastic material is stretching (and lightening in color) before if full-out tears.
These buckles could indeed be caused by the bulging effect that happens when the windows are put all the way down and the regulator pushes the inner panel in. The twist in the panel at the upper part of the door could easily cause the buckling, which then causes the stress/tears.
I actually have two points on each of my doors that have the buckling problem.
Has any one tried taking a heat gun to the plastic to relieve the buckle and release the stresses in the panel?
01-09-2008, 03:13 AM
#314
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The stress is caused by the panel being slightly bent when it is stapled. Remove the last two staples and you will see the dimple disappear. You will also notice that the staple holes in the metal and the plastic door panel no longer line up. If you force them to line up, your dimple will re-appear.
I do not think a heat gun will help anything since the panel will still be stressed unless the staples are removed.
I do not think a heat gun will help anything since the panel will still be stressed unless the staples are removed.
01-23-2008, 07:00 PM
#316
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Mine have had it since I bought it a couple years ago. I always wondered why they were cracked. I thought it was from someone taking off the door panels and being rough with them. Havent seemed to get any worse, but I am going to pull off the asap and fix them.
02-07-2008, 10:37 PM
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am I the only crackless firebird left? :p 2002 38K miles, never been garaged, no cracks. The drivers door panel does have a slight u shaped dimple that is imposible to see, you can only feel it when you slide you fingers across the top of the door panel. I fiberglassed the back sides of both door panels where they are notorious for cracking at 25K miles when I had heard of this common problem. I am going to take my door panels off before I take my car in to get tinted(soon), and at that time I will investigate whether or not I can take the staples out due to my custom fiberglass reinforcement. Heres some pics, enjoy! 
02-18-2008, 10:49 AM
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banditcar - great write up. I also thought the crack in my door panel was from some one being rough with the panel after replacing a speaker or window motor. I'll have to get right on this when the weather warms up.