Captainofiron

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So do you guys think that Pontiac will get a hold of the new Camaro and create a Firebird/Trans am???

I really hope so. I bet that they do, maybe a year later just like in 67. But with the GTO who knows. I think they need a car inbetween the GTO and the Soltice. GTO too expensive, Soltice underpowered.

Mike24

From everything Ive read recently , It doesnt look like there is any Firebird in the pipeline , but at about the time the Camaro returns we get to relive the GTO disaster over again. (Oh boy) . I dont understand why in the hell Pontiac wants to put out another GTO after the lastest FLOPED, I dont care how its sales compared to WS6s and SS's and Cobras. The general Public didnt give **** about this car , In turn equaled not sales . I think they should at least consider a Firebird before sending another GTO to the slaughter.

USMC Devil Dog

Once Lutz said the bird is dead its dead and he has kept to that since the demise of the 4th gen car. I don't see how you guys can say that the Firebird will come back anytime soon. With the GTO program getting the GO and being joined at the hip alongside the future Camaro the bird won't survive. How many performance cars does/can GM have to build? Someday it will make a debut but it won't be in the forseable future (2007-2010)

On a side note I did like the photoshop TA that one of the board members mocked up using one of the current Camaro press photos!


Not for long. With the addition of the 260HP+ turbo GXP it will get interesting to say the least!

2K2WS6TA

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Get rid of that yahoo Lutz, and I bet you'll see one, but not until he's gone

bbfirebird

Firebird and Trans Am are two of GM's more well-known vehicle names. As long as there is a Pontiac brand, you can bet anything that the Firebird name will eventually surface again. But the problem is just that- if Pontiac remains a GM brand. With the trouble GM is facing, and the relative poor sales of Pontiac and Buick, who knows if the brands will remain. I'm willing to bet that if the GTO sales don't pick up, and if the Solstice isn't a hit, we'll be seeing Pontiac go the way of Oldsmobile (as much as I would personally hate that to happen).

If the Camaro was built on a separate chassis than the GTO, and had a different powertrain, they probably would have made another Firebird. But what is the point of having the Firebird and GTO be essentially the same vehicle?

Of course, one way to save the Pontiac brand would be to come out with new exciting vehicles. But the smart thing to do would be to stagger them across a couple of years, so they don't "blow their load all at once" so to speak. The GTO came out in 04, the Solstice in 06... who knows, maybe a Firebird in 09? It would be a good way to keep some fresh new product in the brand lineup. But for that to happen, the GTO or the Firebird would have to be on a different platform. If GM really had some dedication to the Pontiac brand, possibly the Firebird could become a twin of the Corvette. I seriously doubt that though. But hey, tradition hasn't seemed to dictate GM's decisions lately- an independant rear suspension Camaro that is a cousin of the GTO? Who would have imagined that 5 years ago?

Captainofiron

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I think the reason the GTO sucked was because they used a car that was already designed and just did a face lift. Who knows maybe if they have a clean slate they can make an awesome car.

Hey I never saw the photoshop of the 5th gen firebird. Where is it?

Oh yea I cant wait to see that Solstice GXP, I read all about it in HPPontiac. Pretty neat idea. I have been wanting one for a while, would be a cool daily driver so I can quit putting miles on the TA

y2k_ta

iTrader: (80)

Advance warning!!!!! Keep this thread nice, or I'll have to lock it like the other two that were about this very same topic.

dgformula2k

iTrader: (2)

Unfortuntately for us, Pontiac believes it already has such a car, the hideously ricer looking G6 GXP. Not what I would call an adequate replacement for the Trans Am.

HPP

Lutz is TRYING to kill Pontiac. He's not trying to save it at all. Everything he has done has been undermining it - mixing it with Buick and GMC from a corporate perspective, not just dealers (one head for all 3), giving Saturn a twin of the Solstice with styling many consider "more aggressive" (though I think the Solstice looks better), giving the Sky the GXP powertrain, releasing the Torrent, adamantly insisting the Firebird will not return, putting the GTO and camaro on the same platform, continuing to produce a car that didn't sell all that well (GTO), and taking that same car, and removing the one thing that made it popular with many of it's owners - that it wasn't GMNA produced (basically he's chasing a lukewarm market by shaking off many established customers).

He needs to go. There's no 2 ways about it.

As for the GTO and Firebird together, I've said it a few times before, it's very easy to get 3 cars (Formula, T/A, GTO) on one platform, covering 3 distinct market segments. GTO is upscale, 3 series competitor, with options to match, a ride set up for comfort first, handling second, 5 seats, and a hard top. Formula is the bang for the buck stripper - cloth, very few options, 4 seats, shorter overhangs than the GTO and a more aggressive, "younger" styling, and a suspension and diff set up for drag racing. Trans Am is somewhere in between, Formula basic styling with different wing/nose/wheels, but still 4 seats, and still with same basic overhang structure and styling, suspension and diff set up for ORR, and totally optioned out, but not to GTO levels, more like to 4th Gen levels. Formula and T/A have options for T-Tops or Hard top.

Simple.

It's funny, people don't seem to see problems with platform sharing when it comes to the camaro and Sky, so why would it be a problem to put a Firebird and Trans Am on there too?

Putting the Firebird on the Y-Body.... that is a *hell* of an idea. Hadn't thought of that before. Would be inline with history too, since Delorean wanted to build a 2 seat sports car but was told no and only built the Firebird on the F platform because it was all he had to work with.

Reflexively, one would think that GM would never allow another vehicle made on the Corvette platform, but they did allow the XLR. (and that is one bitchin' vehicle, especially the XLR-V)

That would actually work quite well. Less luxury minded than the XLR, lower performing than the Corvette (probably heavier, among other things). It could make a nice fit, and allow Corvette profits to go up too (higher production of the platform means better cost amortizing).

One thing's for certain, if they *do* build a new camaro, they better bring the GTO out first. Zeta has been IT'S platform, long before this damnable camaro crap every sprang up.

bbfirebird

I've said it before, the way to save Pontiac is to turn it into GM's performance division. Bring back the "driving excitement" motto, bring back "widetrack", keep "ram air", etc etc. Drop the Torrent and anything else similar to that. Offer nothing but performance coupes and sedans. The lowest output engine they should have is a supercharged V6. Have the GTO as the cousin of the Camaro, with a GTO Judge option making around 450 HP. Have the Firebird as the cousin of the Corvette, with no V6 engine available, and a Ram Air hood. Have a Trans Am available with a shaker hood and an LS7 with an optional screaming chicken on the hood. Have the Solstice as the little sport coupe, with an LS2 engine option available. Have the GXP and G6 available with detuned LS2s. Finally, develop a Silverado/Sierra cousin that comes only as a regular cab with an LS2 and an optional supercharged LS2.

GM needs to differentiate its brands better so it doesn't compete with itself as much, and covers more markets.

HPP

Some good ideas in principle, however.....

- It's not a *%^%#* chicken!

- Solstice with a V8 won't happen because that would interfere with the Corvette (in corporate minds) - pretty much the performance of a Z-51 for a similar price, and it's new, without the "mid-life crisis" stigma that the 'Vette has.

- The turbo 4 in the Solstice is a neat idea. The hot one could be a turbo or s/c V6.

Otherwise, you're on to something.

But look at what Putz has done - Saturn has NO (as in ZERO) need for, or buisness having, a sports car, much less a Solstice twin. And it *certainly* should not be getting the GXP powertrain. Way to undermine Pontiac Bob, thanks so much!

Not sure if the Vibe comes in AWD? If so, a hot version of that would be cool. And they could also get into WRC with it. Yeah it's a Toyota, but who cares? At least it's another segment to have a foothold in.

G6 could be the "performance" FWD (oxymoron, heh), both in sedan and coupe, plus the hardtop 'vert. And the current Grand Prix could be renmamed "Bonneville", and more or less be a sedan version of the GTO (in terms of market segment). It would need to be RWD as well. If the Impala goes RWD, that platform could be used. (or vice versa)

So that covers roadsters, FWD "performance" in coupe and sedan, sedan luxury-performance, AWD/Rally, 3-Series coupe market (GTO), and fill in the blanks to catch pony car/muscle car/pure sports car/drag racing and road racing markets with the Formula and Trans Am.

And a Trans Am based on the Y-Body/'Vette platform would be like a wet dream. Not sure how they'd dull it's performance to not intrude in 'Vette territory, but I'd think different materials would make it XLR-like (ie, heavier) and perhaps detune the engine a bit, and/or soften the suspension a bit. The aftermarket could pickup the slack. And if it is on that platform, than being as expensive as, or more expensive than, the GTO would be fine.

Sounds like the perfect line up to me.

Captainofiron

iTrader: (1)

Brilliant, you my friend should be a millionaire.

Oh and somebody does make a Solstice with a V-8, google Mallet Solstice. Its pretty neat little car.

V8pwrdz28

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id just like to see foose get a 5th gen and turn it into a bird.

Mike24

Id like to se a fith gen bird period

HPP

"somebody", *not* GM, which was my point.

LTSpeed

HPP, I knew I'd find you here. The next gen Firebird threads are like a magnet for you, huh!

Captainofiron: You beat me to it. Oh, and don't be too surprised if one turns up on the GM proving grounds either...

HPP

Clearly they attract trolls like you. Not any real surprise either.

y2k_ta

iTrader: (80)

Let's keep playing nice with each other.....

LTSpeed

I haven't been called a troll for a few days now and I missed it...

NHRAMAN

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