AWD Holden now out...
10-19-2003, 07:12 PM
#21
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Re: AWD Holden now out...
It is a loosing battle thou because most of America thinks like you now. If you think that the only way to survive is by going "Global Economy" then your wrong.
10-19-2003, 09:26 PM
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Re: AWD Holden now out... "Chevy Z28 - Made in Canada
Chrysler PT Cruiser - Made in Mexico
Chrysler 300M - Made in Cananda"
I own none of the above. I have always checked a vehicle out and know where it was made before I buy.
"This battle has been lost long ago. The only hope to win is to make the US economy the dominant force in the global economy. And bottom line is Pontiac is Pontiac. I'm not buying a ricer or a Beemer, the checks I sign will go to GMAC - an American company."
Good point, I'll buy that.
"The only hope to win is to make the US economy the dominant force in the global economy."
I agree with that also, but only because it's the card we have been handed. We have no choice. I sure hope we can make some changes soon because the circuit board industry has taken some real heavy hits in the last year. Our company may not survive another year of this. Can you say "Would you like fries with that sir?"
Chrysler PT Cruiser - Made in Mexico
Chrysler 300M - Made in Cananda"
I own none of the above. I have always checked a vehicle out and know where it was made before I buy.
"This battle has been lost long ago. The only hope to win is to make the US economy the dominant force in the global economy. And bottom line is Pontiac is Pontiac. I'm not buying a ricer or a Beemer, the checks I sign will go to GMAC - an American company."
Good point, I'll buy that.
"The only hope to win is to make the US economy the dominant force in the global economy."
I agree with that also, but only because it's the card we have been handed. We have no choice. I sure hope we can make some changes soon because the circuit board industry has taken some real heavy hits in the last year. Our company may not survive another year of this. Can you say "Would you like fries with that sir?"
10-19-2003, 10:09 PM
#23
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Re: AWD Holden now out... DaleMX,
What kind of TV and stereo do you have? Where do you draw the line on quality vs. loyalty? Am I a "bad American" because I choose to buy the best quality I can find? Or should I simply reward companies that are American owned with no foreign interests? I work damned hard for my money and I will NOT reward companies that don't perform to my standard. As an engineer you should understand that performance comes before loyalty. The playing field is level and the only losers are the ill-equipped and under achieving.
[quote]
"Chevy Z28 - Made in Canada
Chrysler PT Cruiser - Made in Mexico
Chrysler 300M - Made in Cananda"
I own none of the above. I have always checked a vehicle out and know where it was made before I buy.
And of course because you do your homework you realize that the LS1 in your car is made in St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada. And your M6 is made by a Mexican company called DESC group which owns Tremec, DANA and Borg Warner. Of course you do because "YOU ALWAYS CHECK AND KNOW WHERE IT WAS MADE BEFORE YOU BUY". So I see the loyalty rules only apply to others and not you. Typical.
What kind of TV and stereo do you have? Where do you draw the line on quality vs. loyalty? Am I a "bad American" because I choose to buy the best quality I can find? Or should I simply reward companies that are American owned with no foreign interests? I work damned hard for my money and I will NOT reward companies that don't perform to my standard. As an engineer you should understand that performance comes before loyalty. The playing field is level and the only losers are the ill-equipped and under achieving.
[quote]
"Chevy Z28 - Made in Canada
Chrysler PT Cruiser - Made in Mexico
Chrysler 300M - Made in Cananda"
I own none of the above. I have always checked a vehicle out and know where it was made before I buy.
And of course because you do your homework you realize that the LS1 in your car is made in St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada. And your M6 is made by a Mexican company called DESC group which owns Tremec, DANA and Borg Warner. Of course you do because "YOU ALWAYS CHECK AND KNOW WHERE IT WAS MADE BEFORE YOU BUY". So I see the loyalty rules only apply to others and not you. Typical.
10-20-2003, 12:02 AM
#24
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Re: AWD Holden now out... OWN3D!!!
Those are very good points about consumer electronics and whatnot. I guess the point he is trying to make is that you should buy US when you can. But I will agree with the point that I will not buy a lesser product just to buy US.
If the two products are just as good, and the only difference is that one is made here and one is made overseas, then of course I will buy the US product. But if I'm making a hefty purchase, I want the best product out there, regardless of where it came from.
Those are very good points about consumer electronics and whatnot. I guess the point he is trying to make is that you should buy US when you can. But I will agree with the point that I will not buy a lesser product just to buy US.
If the two products are just as good, and the only difference is that one is made here and one is made overseas, then of course I will buy the US product. But if I'm making a hefty purchase, I want the best product out there, regardless of where it came from.
10-20-2003, 05:00 AM
#26
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Re: AWD Holden now out... Isn't the LS1 manufacturing plant in Canada? Oh right, it is. 
DaleMX, the sooner you realize that GM is a GLOBAL company and the days of GM just being the United States, the sooner your IQ goes up. Holden is every bit a part of GM as Pontiac is. And do you do realize that GM owns part of Subaru and they have done ok with AWD?
Knowledge is power.
DaleMX, the sooner you realize that GM is a GLOBAL company and the days of GM just being the United States, the sooner your IQ goes up. Holden is every bit a part of GM as Pontiac is. And do you do realize that GM owns part of Subaru and they have done ok with AWD?
Knowledge is power.
10-20-2003, 09:29 AM
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Re: AWD Holden now out... I am a die hard staunch "pro-American" supporter and a card carrying, gun toting Republican. Part of the reason why all U.S. manufacturing is going overseas or we're doing work for them is because of the Unions driving up wages for customers that the manufacturers simply just can't pay in order to be competitive. For instance, a few weeks ago, we had a garbage strike here. Many of these people who drive around all day, stop and throw garbage cans in the back of trucks who make $40k, 50k or more decided to go on strike because they felt they weren't paid sufficiently! Kinda makes me wonder why I went and spent on a college education only to be sitting here as a Financial Analyst making the same thing they are when I could've been driving a garbage truck around making more after the Union got done bending my employer over. Some companies say "Fine, we'll just send our work overseas where a happy person from China is exstatic with $.30 an hour vs. an American wanting $30 an hour.
Also, last I checked, the LS1 and transmissions, you know, those two MAJOR components of the GTO and the same engine you have in your Sebring Cobra look alike were made in Romulus, Mi. The only difference is, GM is bolting them together in Austraila vs. here.
If they were to build them here, they'd have to either start up a whole new line, factory, convert another, or take production away from another GM vehicle. You'll probably argue "Take an assembly line from an SUV/Truck factory" but they sure as hell aren't about to hinder their ability to manufacturer their most profitable vehicles. It's those profitable SUV's/Trucks that keep GM's passenger car in business and allow GM tro even have cars like the GTO and prior to that, Camaro's and Trans Am's. Starting production here off the bat, paying American Union wages, with the costs associated with the plant I mentioned above, this GTO would cost $50,000. And I bet you'd be first in line to to buy one then, I mean it's a bargain for a mere extra $17k....after all, it'd be American made.
Simple economies of scale are at work here. Get the most for the least.
Also, last I checked, the LS1 and transmissions, you know, those two MAJOR components of the GTO and the same engine you have in your Sebring Cobra look alike were made in Romulus, Mi. The only difference is, GM is bolting them together in Austraila vs. here.
If they were to build them here, they'd have to either start up a whole new line, factory, convert another, or take production away from another GM vehicle. You'll probably argue "Take an assembly line from an SUV/Truck factory" but they sure as hell aren't about to hinder their ability to manufacturer their most profitable vehicles. It's those profitable SUV's/Trucks that keep GM's passenger car in business and allow GM tro even have cars like the GTO and prior to that, Camaro's and Trans Am's. Starting production here off the bat, paying American Union wages, with the costs associated with the plant I mentioned above, this GTO would cost $50,000. And I bet you'd be first in line to to buy one then, I mean it's a bargain for a mere extra $17k....after all, it'd be American made.
Simple economies of scale are at work here. Get the most for the least.
10-20-2003, 12:34 PM
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Re: AWD Holden now out... Does anyone realize what an LS1 with AWD could do...I mean come on even if the thing was built in iraq (ok maybe not Iraq but you get the idea) I would still buy it just to launch it on the spray or some boost. If that becomes the new GTO that will help GM out alot..The beauty of AWD with massive torque and horsepower sounds fun to me
10-20-2003, 06:42 PM
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Re: AWD Holden now out... CVP33,
"As an engineer you should understand that performance comes before loyalty."
Loyalty first. That's what I was taught. It's the american way. Lack of loyalty is what has happened to the american economy.
I aint perfect, but at least I try to go all american. Sure you can find some places I didn't. And your right, my soapbox is too tall and I let my mouth go before I put my brain in gear.
This thread has convinced me that purchasing a GTO is an "American" purchase. I thank CMNTMXR57 for guiding me there. Doesn't change my feelings about the way it looks tho.
Jrod, I am sorry about killing the original purpose of this thread. You folks carry on.
"As an engineer you should understand that performance comes before loyalty."
Loyalty first. That's what I was taught. It's the american way. Lack of loyalty is what has happened to the american economy.
I aint perfect, but at least I try to go all american. Sure you can find some places I didn't. And your right, my soapbox is too tall and I let my mouth go before I put my brain in gear.
This thread has convinced me that purchasing a GTO is an "American" purchase. I thank CMNTMXR57 for guiding me there. Doesn't change my feelings about the way it looks tho.
Jrod, I am sorry about killing the original purpose of this thread. You folks carry on.
10-20-2003, 08:15 PM
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Re: AWD Holden now out... DaleMX
No prob. Many of the posters here have wrestled with the same issues you have tabled. Now that we have resolved them for ourselves and actually ordered our GTO's we tend to be a defensive and surly bunch. Then again ordering a car you've never seen, don't know the MSRP, performance, etc. and have been waiting since July will do that to you. No hard feelings. Only hard heads.
Peace be with you.
cvp
No prob. Many of the posters here have wrestled with the same issues you have tabled. Now that we have resolved them for ourselves and actually ordered our GTO's we tend to be a defensive and surly bunch. Then again ordering a car you've never seen, don't know the MSRP, performance, etc. and have been waiting since July will do that to you. No hard feelings. Only hard heads.
Peace be with you.
cvp
10-21-2003, 04:44 AM
#31
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Re: AWD Holden now out... A few corrections in this thread. The Tranny is made by tremec(if it is a 6spd) in Mexico. and the LS1's are made in Canada. Neither is exactly AMERICA.
10-22-2003, 01:40 PM
#33
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Re: AWD Holden now out... some toyotas are made ni america, with japanese parts mainly. also some hondas as well.
however the clinton administration gave us a surplus that has been squandered. and we still waitni for W.M.D.
But let's be sensible..should we not get italian dressing on our salads now?
should we all buy subarus because GM owns a piece?
Loyalty is the american way? (enron anyone?)- they did get a severe slap on the wrist though.
Business is the american way, capitalism.
Was bob lutz loyal to gm? why did he design the viper?
Should we not use oil/gas that did not come from our soil? that would not be too much fun would it?
and then when does it stop? should we only buy from car companies that have plants on our timezone?
if Nissan was the one that had an all aluminum v8 with 5.7 liters that offered RAW perfomance on a nice affordable package..
are u saying u all would be Mustang owners?
however the clinton administration gave us a surplus that has been squandered. and we still waitni for W.M.D.
But let's be sensible..should we not get italian dressing on our salads now?
should we all buy subarus because GM owns a piece?
Loyalty is the american way? (enron anyone?)- they did get a severe slap on the wrist though.
Business is the american way, capitalism.
Was bob lutz loyal to gm? why did he design the viper?
Should we not use oil/gas that did not come from our soil? that would not be too much fun would it?
and then when does it stop? should we only buy from car companies that have plants on our timezone?
if Nissan was the one that had an all aluminum v8 with 5.7 liters that offered RAW perfomance on a nice affordable package..
are u saying u all would be Mustang owners?
11-07-2003, 12:13 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by maddboost
It could be there own AWD drivetrain but I was wondering if it could possibly be some parts from Subaru seeing as GM owns about 30% of that company and is already going to be using some of Subuarus parts in an up and coming SAAB.
That Coupe you have all been looking at is "Pie in the sky". In other words someones wet dream.
Holden have made a 4WD Station Wagon out of locally produced parts. It is very strong and goes like stink.
Ron
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12-01-2003, 12:58 AM
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I like the looks of that and would want that as a daily driver over a BMW or Lexus anyday(if I could afford anything like that or this car for that matter). It just looks awesome and it has AWD.
12-01-2003, 09:28 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by Excal
some toyotas are made ni america, with japanese parts mainly. also some hondas as well.
however the clinton administration gave us a surplus that has been squandered. and we still waitni for W.M.D.
But let's be sensible..should we not get italian dressing on our salads now?
should we all buy subarus because GM owns a piece?
Loyalty is the american way? (enron anyone?)- they did get a severe slap on the wrist though.
Business is the american way, capitalism.
Was bob lutz loyal to gm? why did he design the viper?
Should we not use oil/gas that did not come from our soil? that would not be too much fun would it?
and then when does it stop? should we only buy from car companies that have plants on our timezone?
if Nissan was the one that had an all aluminum v8 with 5.7 liters that offered RAW perfomance on a nice affordable package..
are u saying u all would be Mustang owners?
however the clinton administration gave us a surplus that has been squandered. and we still waitni for W.M.D.
But let's be sensible..should we not get italian dressing on our salads now?
should we all buy subarus because GM owns a piece?
Loyalty is the american way? (enron anyone?)- they did get a severe slap on the wrist though.
Business is the american way, capitalism.
Was bob lutz loyal to gm? why did he design the viper?
Should we not use oil/gas that did not come from our soil? that would not be too much fun would it?
and then when does it stop? should we only buy from car companies that have plants on our timezone?
if Nissan was the one that had an all aluminum v8 with 5.7 liters that offered RAW perfomance on a nice affordable package..
are u saying u all would be Mustang owners?
Its just american capitolism that has driven out manufacturing, maybe america will one day turn into a place where all we do is simply sell things and nobody manufactures them here. The rich get richer the poor get poorer.
