Nox

Long time lurker - first post.

It was a tough choice for me and my wife as well. I have an '02ws6. When looking for my wife we debated the GTO and the GT. We decided on the GT. We figured the performance was close, so we went on looks, and chose the GT.

Being former GT owners, I think you guys are severly underestimating the aftermarket for performance parts. The mustang aftermarket is a HUGE industry. Anyone that thinks that the normal range of performance parts will not be readily available is kidding themselves.

Anyway, both cars rule! I love the GTO, and will probably end up with the redisigned '07 GTO, if they don't really screw it up.

CSiJason

The Mustang does have a huge aftermarket, but you forget the GTO has basicly the same aftermarket thanks to the LS1/LS2 motors in the GTO. The only thing that is hard to upgrade in the GTO so far is the selection of off the shelf wheels due to its euro lug standard and odd offsets. Even that problem is lesser now as well.

GMCVT

iTrader: (1)

Coming from Mustangs, I agree. Theres a ton of parts out for the previous gen. GT's, but even with all the "huge aftermarket" options, they still do not provide anywhere near the performance potential that the ls1 does. Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords recently took a 99-04 GT and did a build. Ported PI heads, Cams, Intake, tune, pulleys and pretty much anything else you could think of a they come up with about 320rwhp after spending at least 5,000.00 dollars. Thats in the ballpark of a STOCK LS1. Now again, as I said earlier, the 3v config. on the cylinder head will help no doubt, but you still have a decent displacement dis-advantage and while Ford is sticking with 4.6, GM continues to go up in size and providing cylinder heads from the factory that are extremely efficient. Point is your right, the aftermarket will come out big for the Mustang, I dont think anyone would argue that. But, Its already big for the ls1 and its just going to keep getting bigger. No matter how "Huge" the aftermarket support is for the Mustang, it will still be weaker compared to the LSx engines.

AMCAMX

The mustang definatley has the retro look perfected, the new GTO does not look like a retro GTO at all, so as far as the formula for producing a retro muscle car the new mustang has it and the GTO needs more original GTO retro parts to fit the retro mold, a GTO hood, hood tach, twin tips, different grill etc.

That said the new GTO beats the new mustang in everything else, the interior of the new GTO is gorgeous, thoroughly modern, well appointed, incredible seats nice shifters and awesome color combos and guage pod.
The new mustang has a nice gauge pod with adjustable colors but I have to say after seeing pictures of the rest of the interior it looks very cheap/basic compared to the GTO.

Power plants are apples and oranges, the LS1/2/6 is just a better more powerful motor than the 05's stangs the GTO is faster stock and will be faster with mods than a stang with mods measure for measure.

People will buy the mustang for it's looks, people will buy the GTO for the name and the LS1/2 performance and the interior.

GMCVT

iTrader: (1)

Well said

07Sport

But IMO the GTO is retro to a certain degree. Back in 64 they took a big engine and put it in a Tempest and called it a GTO, in 04, they took an LS1, put it in a Grand Prix look a like, and call it a GTO. It urks me when people praise Ford for the retro design and say GM has strayed from what made the GTO a success originally, I dont see how GM couldve stuck to their original formula anymore.

GMCVT

iTrader: (1)

Again, very well said. Something else people forget is that the GTO was by most accounts the first Muscle car. The Mustang was the first pony car. Muscle cars were not about styling, as much as they were about going fast.
Pony cars, particularly the Mustang, was the opposite. It focused more heavily on styling and sportiness than anything. Something funny I heard the other day. It was an interview with carroll shelby, he was asked how the deal with Ford Motor company came about, he just laughed and said something like "well when they first approached me with the idea, I asked them what the hell am I suppose to do with a secretary's car."
I just thought that was kinda funny coming from Carroll Shelby himself.

Nox

I agree. My ls1 is hella better than any GT engine. 5.0 or 4.6. And I have had both, including two cobra's.

I guess my point is, it will be not be difficult to get either car into the 12.5-12.7 region, which is plenty fast for her (or most anyone in a daily driver), and to us the Stang looks better.

GMCVT

iTrader: (1)

Although I still think it will be more difficult to get the GT into that area, you are right. When all is said and done you will probably be able to get the GT to that bracket. It is speculated that the ls2 goat should be able to hit high 12's stock and it looks like Mustangs average best is mid 13's. Only time will tell. Point is, your overall deciding factor for your given situation was looks, and thats preference and thats cool. Its just that to some of us, what is under the hood is preference #1. And when it comes to that preference, it hard to go wrong with GM. My preference engine aside would still be GTO.
It may make far less of a statement than the Mustang but I prefer a fresher look as opposed to a 40 year old re-design. But thats just my opinion. There are obviously other people out there who would dis-agree(in big #'s I might add) and thats why we live in America . Thanks!

AMCAMX

I still think pontiac is not getting the retro market with this GTO, look at the mustang it looks very similar to the 69-07 fastbacks tailights, front end, grill, shape, etc etc. this is what is meant by retro.

The new GTO regardless of what the original GTO formula was(nice power in a stripped body) does not follow the retro theme by design at all, only in name GTO. There are no deatails to the body or interior that have retro characteristics at all again only in name, and in fact the car is fully loaded.

Look at the mini coopers the VW bugs the New mustang the new T-bird and they have many of the idientifying body panels that made them so popular in their day, the 04 has NONE of the design features from ANY year GTO.

GMCVT

iTrader: (1)

Your right, there not and according to Bob Lutz and others at GM there not going too either. Personally I agree with them. In my opinion, I thought Ford got the "retro" theme right when they did the mach1. It carried a completely modern look, while incoporating strong retro. Quite different from the 05 Mustang.

AMCAMX

Yes I agree. I don't think the new GTO is marketed along the guidellines of a retro theme as the cars mentioned above adhere very strictly to. The new GTO IS however a modern incarnation of the "muscle car" theme and I think that is what pontiac really wants out of this car, and I think they have succeeded, it is modern and has a 350/400 horse V8, and is not overburdened with crazy graphics and tacky body cladding, it is a clean slate as far as I am concerned, and even the aftermarket parts, wheels/hoods look killer on it the 05 scoops "kinda" look like some of the gto scoops but a 67 power blister scoop or a 70 ram air like the scorpion aftermarket hood should have been the obvious choice for the car, my 2 cents. I also agree ford could have left the mach 1 alone, it did have identifiable late 60's parts like the shaker hood and graphics,and side scoops, but it also looked too much like mid 90's on up stangs, so I think this new 05 stang is what they were truely trying to accomplish. The GTO is a different theme, they brought back the name and had a nice clean modern well balaced platform to do it on, with a highly developed powerful small block and drivetrain, so the original GTO " theme" is back without a doubt.

TriShield

I never recall this being a problem with the last F-bodies, the 94-96 Impala SS, the Marauder or even the 5.0 Mustangs that looked an awful lot like Ford Escorts. Why is retro such a big hairy deal now with a modern GTO? None of the cars I mentioned looked like the originals, yet people love them. Is everyone going to bitch about the new Charger too?

You know if GM had to completely rebody the Monaro, we simply would not have gotten a GTO at all. Not to mention the sales of all the full blown retro remakes waned after the first year.

07Sport

Isnt the new charger going to be a 4 door?

00TAProject

Ok I am going to chim ein my .02 here. I just read the other day about the 05 Stang. with it's much engine improvement, it puts out 300hp. Now correct me if I am wrong here gentlemen, I believe that the GTo is still lofting 350hp.
Do to the weight difference, they do run the quarter close together, But then again, Car and Driver have been known to make mistakes (Once in a while).

I like the new look and have no doubts in 6 months there is going to be alot of them running around.
But it really has been (And history will show) cheaper to build up a Chevy/GM motor than is to build up a Ford. Why? I have not the slightest idea, it just is.

GTO has my vote, but I am gonaa test drive the **** out of both of them!


Peace from Iraq....

CSiJason

The 05 GTO's get the LS2 straight out of the C6 Corvette with its full 400hp/400tq. C&D ran low 13's at 107mph but i've heard talk about high 12's at closer to 110mph. Basicly, C5 performance, BMW luxury, German built quality all with a Pontiac price tag. Cant go wrong if you ask me!

07Sport

Well said

GMCVT

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=00TAProject]Ok I am going to chim ein my .02 here. I just read the other day about the 05 Stang. with it's much engine improvement, it puts out 300hp. Now correct me if I am wrong here gentlemen, I believe that the GTo is still lofting 350hp.
Do to the weight difference, they do run the quarter close together, But then again, Car and Driver have been known to make mistakes (Once in a while).

I like the new look and have no doubts in 6 months there is going to be alot of them running around.
But it really has been (And history will show) cheaper to build up a Chevy/GM motor than is to build up a Ford. Why? I have not the slightest idea, it just is.

GTO has my vote, but I am gonaa test drive the **** out of both of them!
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Until several years into the 5.0, the biggest challenge for Ford small blocks was the design of there factory heads and limited engine sizes. GM on the other hand has made numerous performance engines (variety of ci) and were equipped with decent cylinder heads. Although I'm not as familiar with 1st gen. engines as I should be, I know that there were several good flowing cylinder heads from the factory that were widely available. Ford on the other hand, was quite the opposite. There were a couple of decent heads but they weren't anywhere near as easily available as their GM couterparts. Soo, you would have to pay big bucks to get a race engine builder to seriously work over the best Ford castings you could find. Plus, again, until the 5.0 the aftermarket was alot stronger for the GM cars than it was for Ford. GM spent alot of time and money investing in performance in the 60's and early 70's and it paid off for many decades to come. The best Cylinder heads Ford offered on the late model pushrod Mustangs was the GT40's and even though they were a decent cylinder head, if you look at the stock flow rates, they are still fairly weak. The reason modular Mustangs cost so much is because of there complicated overhead cam arrangement. The 96-98 2v stangs were pathetic. Mainly because of very poor cylinder head design. The DOHC Cobra power plants were really sweet, but they are limited N/A because of there CI.
Plus in a DOHC arrangement, when you have the heads gone through you have 32valves instead of 16. You have 4 cams to replace instead of 1. The 4.6 is limited in its ability to grow CI wise unlike the LSx engine, they are more difficult to package because they are larger than the Pushrod engines and I believe they also weigh more than the LSx engines. This could go on but maybe this will help shed some light on that for ya!

Pontiaker

Great posts without a bunch of flame throwing! To me and I think alot of other people it just comes down to weather or not you can live with/enjoy the looks of the GTO. I could'nt, I bought a used Vette (great values right now). I personally would love to see a retro version of the GTO, I would buy one if it looked half as good as the 05 Stang and I think a hell of alot of other people would too, the LS2 would just be icing on the cake!
Matt

Nox

No doubt we would have. If the 05 goat had the "look", we would have waited and paid the extra 6k.