So what you're saying that other Vette owners have run 12.9-13.2 but you only have run a 13.5? I guess you're not that good of a driver. Am I wrong?

 

Sounds like 2.73 is taking a lot of time and effort justifying why his **** is so slow - even slower than the slowest LS1 car ever built, the 04 GTO - he has conveniently thrown that in there twice now.

I'm really sorry that your **** is slow and only runs 13.50's and that GTOs run low 13's - you obviously have a problem with that. You'll just have to get over it.

 

Yea I totally agree with you. 2.73 geared C5's are slow IMHO as well..

13.3-13.6 on average isnt that fast....And pretty pathetic for a C5 in my opinion..But GM wanted the MPG specs to look real good and through the 2.73's on there.

My car dynoed 299 rwhp...ATLEASE 10 rwhp above average..And so I still threw down good times by my tracks standards.

But even if there was a bone stock 04 GTO at my track that could run faster times than my C5 stock for stock..I wouldnt sweat it....Id be happy that the LS1 is representing...

If a mach1 ran a faster time stock for stock..Then we'd have a problem..But they run the same times as the 04 Goats at my track. Maybe a tenth faster if at all.

Once again Im not bashing your car...I like GTO's and if I had to get rid of my C5 for somthing with more space it would be a very hard decision between a 05 GTO and a 03 cobra..

IF YOU GO TO THE CAMARO SECTION RIGHT NOW YOU'LL SEE A THREAD ASKING ABOUT WHAT THE LT1 CAMAROIS CAPABLE OF THREW THE 1/4 MILE


read through the post and you'll see many people posting about how there bone stock LT1 ran a 13.3-13.5 and that LT1's can trapp 100-107 mph..

The origional poster gets excited and says wow I never knew LT1's were this fast and he now beleaves that a LT1 is only a tenth or two slower than an LS1.

where are all the people posting the 14.0-14.3 that you see from bone stock LT1 camaros 98% of the time?????

107 mph??????? Come on now...

These guys are eighter unrealistic or the guys who brows by the thread see a good oppertunity to post there LT1 times (that they know are much better than what people normally run) Thats the only reason they took the time to post anyways.

Now if all LT1 camaros could really run 13.3-13.5 at 100-107 mph...no one would have ever bought an LS1 camaro...


The same thing is happening on that thread ...That happenned on this thread...

Now imagine when that guy buys the LT1 camaro and goes to the track and runs a 14.2 at 97 mph....

He's gonna be a good 7-9 tenths slower than what they were posting...

But the guys who ran 13.3-13.5 would swear that they could take his camaro and runa a 13.3-13.5 in it...

NOT AT HIS TRACK YOU WOULDNT!!!!!!!

NOT WITH HIS AVERAGE RWHP YOU WOULDNT!!!!

just go check out that thread and see how you feel when these LT1 camaro guys swear that there car is just as fast as your 04 GTO on average...

These are the same stock LT1's that you saw run a 14.2 compared to your 13.7 at the track and murdered easily...

it's exactly the same way I feel when you say your 3700 pound LS1 is just as fast as a 3200 pound LS1...

 

Sorry the camaro thread is in the drag racing results section.

 

Its your ego getting in the way again. An 04 M6 GTO has it all over your 2.73 A4. Why is it so hard to understand? Weight has nothing to do with it as GEAR ratios more than make up for it. Very simple math.

As far as LT1's, I posted what my bone stock 96 WS6 did back in 96(13.50@103). That was also the only time it was stock at the track. I thought mine ran very well and it actually surprised me it ran so good. But it wasn't the best time out of a stock LT1, just a really good time. I also had it dynoed and it made exactly what other WS6's were making at the time, 274/305. No voodoo magic.

Just like NVigR8's car dynoed at 300rwhp. 90% of M6 GTO's seem to dyno right there.

 

2.73 -

My 04 gto that ran low 13's didn't dyno any higher than any other m6 04 GTO that the driver ran 14's in. My car is not above average.

For some reason you equate driver capabilities with car capabilities. Like I said before, I ran 14's the first time to the track with this car - its tough to drive at the track, tough to launch, tough to get decent times that are up to par with the car capabilities.

Now does that mean it is the slowest LS1 car ever made or is it the hardest LS1 car made to get good times?

I just took the time to get it right and drive the car the way it needs to be driven to live up to its capabilities, most GTO drivers haven't done that. Does that mean the car is slow like yours?

 

It is impossible to convince a self proclaimed prophet who believes he is protecting neophyte GTO owners from misleading propaganda.(by current GTO owners)

Ownership of said vehicle and experience behind the wheel at the track are only incidental and minor distractions.

 

good link: http://www.dragtimes.com/

 

I'm not buying this at all. Not even for a second. I've claimed the highest trap speed for a stock '04 A4 with a 103 MPH run. That was mated to a 13.59 w/ a 2.0 short time. That was in mid 40 degree weather.

Your claiming to run a tenth quicker with 3 less MPH on a much warmer day with a 1.8 short time? How?

I'm not buying it. How did you get a 1.8 short time in warm weather?

So you cut a 1.8 100% stock and THEN went to a Yank 3500 with BFG drag radials and only dropped 1/10th from your short time? You either have the most loose stock convertor any GTO has ever had or you have the most underperforming Yank 3500 ever considering it could only help your short time by a tenth.

 

If the '04 GTO was the slowest LS1 car ever made, then what does that say about your car being as my 100% STOCK A4 GT0 trapped higher then your Vette did?

I would never dispute that '04 GTOs aren't the slowest RWD LS1 cars made, they are. Its just funny hearing it from a guy with a Vette that happens top trap less then my GTO....


Its even funnier when I see a Vette with LS6 heads and a Thunder cam....running 13s....

And come back with the track/elevation arguement, your car has picked up 1/2 second with LS6 heads, cam, and cold-air....aweful....

[QUOTE=2.73 Vette
Too get back on topic....This was all stated cas someone asked for a normal/ average time...
It's to show what most people think the average one will run. I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT BEFORE.. BUT MAYBE SINCE THE 04 GOAT IS THE SLOWEST LS1 CAR MADE.....THATS THE REASON SOME OF YOU WILL NOT JUST ADMIT THE OBVIOUS.[/QUOTE]

 

[QUOTE=2.73 Vette]Yea I totally agree with you. 2.73 geared C5's are slow IMHO as well..

FWIW Patman, who is a well known user here, ran a 13.9 in his car with 2.73 gears. Oh yeah, that 'car' he did that in was a LT1 FBody. So your 2.73 geared LS1 C5 is a whopping 4/10s quicker then a comparably equipped LT1 FBody. LOL FWIW Patman's current C5 is already in the 12s, something your LS6 headed, Thunder 224 cammed C5 is yet to do.

And part of the reason why your car may have dynoed a bit higher was BECAUSE it has 2.73s. Lower numeric gears generally will dyno higher all other things being equal.

Watching you talk about your Vette like its an above average running car all the while it ran 103 MPH stock and still hasn't collected that oh-so elusive 12 second time slip with LS6 heads and a cam is blisterningly funny to me.

 

Like ive said so many times ...some tracks are slower/faster than others...

Most 2002 z06 guys at my track dont run 12's..

the fastest stock 02 z06 ran a 12.7...many people questioned his times and it is now apparrent that he did have an air intake on the runs...

here Ill give you real time slips from my track that I just ran tonight...


Me vrs 2006 STI..THE TRACK WAS INCREDIBLY SLICK TONIGHT...mY RUNS WERE WITH MODS IN SIG AND NITTO REGULAR STREET TIRES
ME STI
2.596 60 ft vrs 2.039
9.243 1/8 vrs 9.300
85.07 mph vrs 76.12 mph
13.853 vrs 14.397
107.90 mph vrs 93.57 mph ( Bone stock STI's run 13.9-14.3 at my track..This was an average run for the sti)


ME 350Z
2.505 60 FT 2.216
9.125 VRS 9.547
85.56 VRS 72.93
13.675 VRS 14.914
107.37 VRS 92.25 ( 350Z's run 14.7-15.2 at my track stock..This was a decent run)


ME VRS MN6 SS CAMARO WITH TR 224/224 CAM..HEADERS LID AND MODDED CLUTCH..


2.384 60 FT VRS 2.153
8.953 VRS 8.765
84.93 VRS 83.48
13.493 VRS 13.367
107.36 VRS 108.44


We ran many times with him winning two of them with 13.3's vrs my 13.4's and then i ran a 2.3 60 ft ( still horrible) and ran a 13.3 to his 13.5...

We pulled over to talk after 5 bach to back runs and I thought it was kool that his car had the same cam as mine..

My best mph to date is 109.1 and his best mph to date is 109.8...

My best ET is a 13.07and his best ET is a 13.305....A 2.73 running faster than an mn6 with equal mods.

My car is faster than his camed with headers and lid camaro....But you guys cant see that cas you think all tracks yield the same results..

I went and talked to the track officals to find out what the record was for the quickest bone stock 04 GTO...

They told me 13.9 at 101 mph for an mn6....I thought that was pretty impressive by my tracks standards...

I just cant explain it any better than this...Vipers run high 12's at my track stock...And those are on the good runs...My 13.0 is pretty fast.

So dis my car all you want. It dosent affect me what so ever. I learned a long time ago that whats posted on the internet means nonthing when judging cars....Just to many variables between tracks.

As long as i know my car dynoed higher than average ( including other 2.73 geared cars) and ran faster than the other vettes ...camaros stock for stock...Why should I care?


So you guys can swear up and down that all 04 GTO's can run low 13's bone stock all you want to. Im pretty sure that it's not a true statment and was just stating my opinion. If my opinion bothers you then I truly am sorry..

But if you want to prove me wrong it's very simple..Get 7 out of every 10 stock 04 GTO's to run a 13.1-13.3 ( low 13)....Then Ill completely change my opinion and agree with you...

But right now it's 7 out of every 10 04 GTO's run a 13.6-13.9...The other 2 are in the 14's and 1 may or may not hit a low 13.

How can you say thats average?

 

Sounds reasonable to me. Buddy of mine on the eastern shore ran a 13.4x in his bone stock A4. Track was in Delaware, US13 dragway(I think that's the name)? Either way, he widdled his down that far. Now he's in the 11's with just spray and converter. Of course, he's gone through a couple trannies along the way. A4's don't like road courses too much

In all the cars I've owned, .1 in the 60' was equal to about .14 in the 1/4. So its fairly easy to see how it could happen.

 

[QUOTE=2.73 Vette]
I went and talked to the track officals to find out what the record was for the quickest bone stock 04 GTO...

They told me 13.9 at 101 mph for an mn6....I thought that was pretty impressive by my tracks standards...

So you guys can swear up and down that all 04 GTO's can run low 13's bone stock all you want to. Im pretty sure that it's not a true statment and was just stating my opinion. If my opinion bothers you then I truly am sorry..
QUOTE]

I'm not claiming anything about what 'average' GTOs do. Their is no average, either people can drive or they can't. End of story. I think we'd all agree that modt M6 '04 GTOs put down ~ 295-300 RWHP so its not the car, its the driver's that vary.

So you asked your track official what was the quickest time for an '04 GTO? And he tells you 13.9? And what is this based off of? I didn't know track kept tabs on best ETs for stock cars. LOL

FWIW, you get 2.5 short times in an automatic Vette? Uh, the wife's Sonata turned 2.3s so basically if I lined up with you in your LS6 headed, 224 cammed A4 3500 stalled Vette you'd be playing catch-up right into 2nd gear. Now THATS funny.

FWIW my '98 Formula when it had a lid w/ K&N, $30 cut-out, Vigilante 2800 stall, and ASP pulley went 12.43 @ 109 MPH on tire. Stock gears, stock heads, stock cam, stock manifolds, stock throttle body etc.

 

So your agreeing this guy managed to cut 1.8 short times on the stock suspension/tires on his way to 13.4s stock meanwhile with a Yank 3500 and BFGs he only improved his short time by a tenth? And all of this in hot & humid weather?

If someone like your buddy runs 13.4 in Delaware I can see it, better weather etc. And I'm guessing the car ran atleast 102 MPH.

 

I can see cutting 1.8x in an A4. NVigR8 used to cut 1.8x with a M6 on stock tires, so anything is possible. I could only manage mid 1.9s, hence him being over a tenth quicker than me even though our MPH was almost identical (different tracks but on the same day in MD)

As far as the stall, if the tires/track aren't up to the task, then you won't see to much improvement. But a tenth in short times is pretty good, considering.

Can't remember what Dave's car ran as far as mph, I want to say 101 or 102 but I'm not sure. I know it wasn't high.

 

NVigR8 ran those times at Cecil, a very well prepped track. The weather was also quite good. If I remember correctly, and he will have to verify, he ran that time along with a couple other guys at he same day at Cecil. Ironically 2 hours away, on that same Saturday I ran my 13.59 and a friend in a bone stock '04 Z06 went 11.93. The track was hooking, the air was sweet.

 

I think he also ran 13.1x at Capitol and MIR. I ran my 13.25 at MIR and 13.3 at both Mason-Dixon and 75-80. I never have any luck at Cecil. Hopefully that'll change this year as I plan on hitting it more since 75-80 has been shut down.

 

wow you all have to much time on your hands..

 

KennyH..The guys who run my track are all camaro owners..from the guy you pay to get in to the guy who gives you your time slip...

They all park there cars side by side near the front gate and they DO no whats running what bone stock. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the LS1's.

I go to the track 2-3 times per month 12 months per year and I too know whats running what..

from watching and racing other cars to just going up to the GTO..STI...mach1 groups and asking them who pulled the best time stock in your group or that you know of at this track...

For the STI guys they claim 13.6 that the camaro guys also verified for me..

For the mach1 guys it is a 13.8.

And for the 04 GTO guys it is a 13.9 ...

If any of you looked at the thread I posted with C5 bone stock timeslips... You may notice that I take bone stock performance pretty seriously. to me it is more important than modded performance.

Because it shows me just how far a manufactuer could go on a mass produced car as far as speed without having a 100 grand price tag..

Somthing about bone stock camaros vrs bone stockSTI's/supras just really gets my heart pumping more than modded vrs modded where there are so many combinations and variables.

NEways..I hope to one day see 1 out of every 3 04 GTO's running low 13's so I can agree with you..

But right now all through the internet people refer to it as a heavy dog...The LS2 really helped change that image. And I hope more of you will continue to pull low 13's to show them it was never a dog in the first place.

Im not gonna post any more on this thread. I wont change your opinion and like wise....JUST KEEP TELLING THE GUYS WITH 2.0 60 FTS THAT RUN 13.6 AT 102 MPH THAT IT'S THERE DRIVING...AND NOT THE ACT THAT THE CAR IS TOO HEAVY FOR 280-300 RWHP TO ALWAYS RUN LOW 13'S.