2-step my APS Goat
09-25-2007, 11:13 PM
#21
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MPH disable of launch controller I just remembered that our speed to voltage converter box (STOV-001) already has activation outputs that could be programmed to trigger a relay that would disable the launch controller once the vehicle is moving (we use these outputs to give gear change indications based on speed for some of the boost controllers and other devices designed to work with race transmissions that normally have microswitches on the gear change lever).
I know we have one STOV-001 left in inventory. I will have to figure out what else you would need and if we would need to reprogram the STOV-001.
Jason
I know we have one STOV-001 left in inventory. I will have to figure out what else you would need and if we would need to reprogram the STOV-001.
Jason
Originally Posted by Fastbird93
My only concern about tapping the VSS is the sensitivity of the speedo/odometer to voltage changes. I had to do TONS of testing on my 93 T/A (granted, it's obviously not the same, but the issue could very easily still pop up) to get the cleanest signal to the speedo as I could. I'd be worried that on my Vette that any signal change would whack out the speedo. But, if you had a 0-5v conversion box.....that would probably be pretty easy to scale, given that you could just set 0v to 0 MPH and scale up at whatever rate necessary, then set the .1v or whatever to disengage the launch control.
I may just do the momentary switch and try to get the timing down. I'm thinking that upon initial clutch release the RPM's are going to take a drop at which case I'd have to be right on it, and could probably get away with launching without my hand on the shifter for that short time.
I may just do the momentary switch and try to get the timing down. I'm thinking that upon initial clutch release the RPM's are going to take a drop at which case I'd have to be right on it, and could probably get away with launching without my hand on the shifter for that short time.
09-25-2007, 11:17 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Jason Haines @ LPE
The speedometer output to the dash from the ECM and PCM on most GM vehicles for the last 10 to 12 years has been a frequency output with a 4000 pulse per mile rate. This signal is fairly easy to tap into without impacting the output/reading of the speedometer or the odometer.
We choose to use the output from the PCM/ECM since it is already calibrated to the correct pulse rate for the tires, gears etc. (assuming the car's speedometer is calibrated correctly). This allows us to easily scale the 0-5 volt output to a 0 to 250 mph scale (or something similar). For this it might even be easier to leave it in pulse form for the module to go off of and then just have some kind of adjustment dial for the speed that relates to the frequency internally.
Jason
We choose to use the output from the PCM/ECM since it is already calibrated to the correct pulse rate for the tires, gears etc. (assuming the car's speedometer is calibrated correctly). This allows us to easily scale the 0-5 volt output to a 0 to 250 mph scale (or something similar). For this it might even be easier to leave it in pulse form for the module to go off of and then just have some kind of adjustment dial for the speed that relates to the frequency internally.
Jason
09-25-2007, 11:37 PM
#23
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Vehicle speed based launch controller/2-step disable The speed to voltage converter with the relay output control capability (STOV-001) sells for $99.95. Software programming changes to the STOV-001 to make this work would be at no charge. If we have to make hardware changes to the board design that is a different story (and then it won't be shipping this week) but I am fairly confident we can make the existing speed converter design work (with a software change or two).
The wiring and switches would be up to the individual installer/user. If this becomes a popular request, we could look into getting harnesses made and ordering switches in some volume but for a one off it would be pretty expensive if we did it ourselves and sold it out the door.
Jason
The wiring and switches would be up to the individual installer/user. If this becomes a popular request, we could look into getting harnesses made and ordering switches in some volume but for a one off it would be pretty expensive if we did it ourselves and sold it out the door.
Jason
Originally Posted by Fastbird93
That just might work. The question then becomes what is it going to add to the overall cost. Although I'm sure people would pay more for a seamless installation that's invisible unless at a dead stop.
09-26-2007, 10:17 AM
#25
Here's a thought that came from a buddy of mine with a ton of knowledge -- run a contact switch at the shifter plate that's connected in 1st gear only, then through the clutch switch. That way you'd only be active with the clutch pedal down in 1st gear only. Radio shack here I come.
09-26-2007, 11:27 AM
#26
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Shifter plate Not a lot of range of motion in the shifter plate to distinguish between gears - especially at the shifter.
The actual shifter plate is in the transmission on the C5 and C6 Corvettes. Might be easier to get to on the F-body vehicles.
Jason
The actual shifter plate is in the transmission on the C5 and C6 Corvettes. Might be easier to get to on the F-body vehicles.
Jason
Originally Posted by Fastbird93
Here's a thought that came from a buddy of mine with a ton of knowledge -- run a contact switch at the shifter plate that's connected in 1st gear only, then through the clutch switch. That way you'd only be active with the clutch pedal down in 1st gear only. Radio shack here I come.
09-26-2007, 11:33 AM
#27
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Speed to voltage converter info The speed to voltage converter box is another one of our in-house type products that we haven't tried to sell to outside people so we don't have any instructions etc. You would be surprised how many products we have like that. I will put some info together (I didn't even have pictures of it until 20 minutes ago).
With the speed to voltage converter I think two options exist. One would be to use a clutch switch and then the speed to voltage converter triggers a relay the disables the launch controller once you are moving so that it doesn't trigger on the gear changes.
The other option might be to use only the speed converter and disable the launch controller based purely on vehicle (actually rear wheel) speed. It would need to be adjustable so you could adjust how much tire movement/vehicle speed you wanted before it disabled the launch controller. Since we are talking fairly low speed it would need to be able to be adjusted in fine increments. That would take testing to see if it would work. Anyone want to be a guinea pig?
BTW - what about having the launch controller trigger during shifts and use that as a spark cut to help WOT shifts?
Jason
With the speed to voltage converter I think two options exist. One would be to use a clutch switch and then the speed to voltage converter triggers a relay the disables the launch controller once you are moving so that it doesn't trigger on the gear changes.
The other option might be to use only the speed converter and disable the launch controller based purely on vehicle (actually rear wheel) speed. It would need to be adjustable so you could adjust how much tire movement/vehicle speed you wanted before it disabled the launch controller. Since we are talking fairly low speed it would need to be able to be adjusted in fine increments. That would take testing to see if it would work. Anyone want to be a guinea pig?
BTW - what about having the launch controller trigger during shifts and use that as a spark cut to help WOT shifts?
Jason
Originally Posted by Fastbird93
Can you email me what info (instructions or specs) you have on this voltage convertor box. I'd like to look at it to see if I could make it work somehow and see how it installs into the car.
09-26-2007, 11:57 AM
#28
I've been running over it in my head, and it might be possible to mount a very small switch (I've found some at Radio Shack that are only about 1" long and 1/2" wide by 1/4" thick, the type that have the arm that gets pushed to close the circuit) that could be secured to the top of the shifter itself, positioned rightly to where only 1st gear would make the contact. That, or an actuation "arm" of sorts on the shifter shaft that would be the contacting point. Small enough to be hidden under the shift boot too.
the voltage converter idea I still like best as it's one less "actuated" part in the way, but it sounds like it's going to involve a lot of extra wiring also.
I've got to find time to get into the car and look at this stuff.
the voltage converter idea I still like best as it's one less "actuated" part in the way, but it sounds like it's going to involve a lot of extra wiring also.
I've got to find time to get into the car and look at this stuff.
09-26-2007, 05:02 PM
#29
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Here are some basic details on the STOV-001:
STOV-001 basic operation description:
0-5 volt analog output proportional to speed. Speed range is 0 – 250mph.
Analog output will increase at a rate of .02 volt per mph.
Connects to GM ECM/PCM VSS output (4000 ppm).
Switched output control:
Two Ground active outputs.
16 position switch to select output configuration.
Currently the table in the STOV-001 is set as follows:
Speed (mph) gear change
1 2 3 4 5
switch position 0 0 30 60 110 140 175
1 1 25 50 95 125 155
2 2 20 45 90 115 140
3 3 20 40 80 105 130
4 4 40 75 120 175 220
5 5 35 70 115 170 210
6 6 30 65 105 150 200
7 7 55 80 110 140 190
8 8 50 75 100 130 175
9 9 45 70 95 125 165
10 A 40 65 90 120 160
11 B 47 80 123 164 200
12 C 44 75 116 154 190
13 D 38 65 100 133 180
14 E 35 60 92 122 166
15 F 32 55 85 113 152
We will look into making a different version of this table or using the other switch to allow small changes to the initial switch mph.
Operation as mph increases, when 1st table entry is reached “Activation” output will turn on(provides a ground signal), starting Stage1 boost control. This output will remain ON until mph drops below 1st table entry.
As mph increases and becomes greater than or equal to next table entry the “Next Stage” output will turn ON(provides ground signal) for .1 second then turns back OFF. This provides pulse to increment boost controller to next stage.
This process continues as mph increase until last table entry is reached and/or a table entry is equal to 0.
As the mph decrease the “Activation” output will remain ON until mph is below 1st table entry. Then the “Activation” output turns OFF resetting the boost controller. IF mph increases the above sequence is performed again.
The 0-5 volt Analog and Switched outputs will work simultaneously and either and/or both may be used at the same time.
Jason
STOV-001 basic operation description:
0-5 volt analog output proportional to speed. Speed range is 0 – 250mph.
Analog output will increase at a rate of .02 volt per mph.
Connects to GM ECM/PCM VSS output (4000 ppm).
Switched output control:
Two Ground active outputs.
16 position switch to select output configuration.
Currently the table in the STOV-001 is set as follows:
Speed (mph) gear change
1 2 3 4 5
switch position 0 0 30 60 110 140 175
1 1 25 50 95 125 155
2 2 20 45 90 115 140
3 3 20 40 80 105 130
4 4 40 75 120 175 220
5 5 35 70 115 170 210
6 6 30 65 105 150 200
7 7 55 80 110 140 190
8 8 50 75 100 130 175
9 9 45 70 95 125 165
10 A 40 65 90 120 160
11 B 47 80 123 164 200
12 C 44 75 116 154 190
13 D 38 65 100 133 180
14 E 35 60 92 122 166
15 F 32 55 85 113 152
We will look into making a different version of this table or using the other switch to allow small changes to the initial switch mph.
Operation as mph increases, when 1st table entry is reached “Activation” output will turn on(provides a ground signal), starting Stage1 boost control. This output will remain ON until mph drops below 1st table entry.
As mph increases and becomes greater than or equal to next table entry the “Next Stage” output will turn ON(provides ground signal) for .1 second then turns back OFF. This provides pulse to increment boost controller to next stage.
This process continues as mph increase until last table entry is reached and/or a table entry is equal to 0.
As the mph decrease the “Activation” output will remain ON until mph is below 1st table entry. Then the “Activation” output turns OFF resetting the boost controller. IF mph increases the above sequence is performed again.
The 0-5 volt Analog and Switched outputs will work simultaneously and either and/or both may be used at the same time.
Jason
Originally Posted by Fastbird93
Can you email me what info (instructions or specs) you have on this voltage convertor box. I'd like to look at it to see if I could make it work somehow and see how it installs into the car.
09-26-2007, 05:35 PM
#31
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I have a limited knowledge of electrical componants, thankfully. I was able to just barely hang on to todays posts from you two, heh. Definetly a whole lot of information to try to digest for me. So, in laymans terms, LPE is working on using an in house piece of equipment to tap into the OE GM speed signal and use that to turn the "2-step" off as soon as 1 MPH is reached. Nice. If this goes through i would be willing to have my tuner install it and I would be the guinee pig. The last race of the season in my area is Oct 5th. If you can get it to me by then I would be willing to log all the data in HP Tuners that I can and give a thurough report on how it worked, videos of install and track runs included.
I have a limited knowledge of electrical componants, thankfully. I was able to just barely hang on to todays posts from you two, heh. Definetly a whole lot of information to try to digest for me. So, in laymans terms, LPE is working on using an in house piece of equipment to tap into the OE GM speed signal and use that to turn the "2-step" off as soon as 1 MPH is reached. Nice. If this goes through i would be willing to have my tuner install it and I would be the guinee pig. The last race of the season in my area is Oct 5th. If you can get it to me by then I would be willing to log all the data in HP Tuners that I can and give a thurough report on how it worked, videos of install and track runs included.
09-26-2007, 10:52 PM
#32
You may end up being the guinea pig. I was looking at my setup today, and given I've got a hurst shifter, I've got some bolts on the top of the body (NOT the spring adjustment bolts) that I can fab a small mounting plate for a switch to be positioned to be activated by 1st gear only. I think the first route of installation I'm going to take is the 1st gear switch to clutch switch for activation of the launch controller. If that proves to be too troublesome I'll readdress doing the LG voltage converter box.
09-27-2007, 10:33 AM
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I dont really have a lot of room to go any faster, heh. Once I hit 11.490 the track official is going to be kind of angry 
I am willing to submit my car as the guinee pig for the speed switch. That sounds like it would work rather well.
Jason, if you and the folks at LPE want to go this route let me know. I can get all the neccessary additional items (switches/relays) myself and have a competent tuner install everything as well. This sounds like it would be an awesome way to install the 2-step. More expensive than whats currently available, but a MUCH cleaner install and not having to worry about flicking a switch at just the right moment to disengage the 2-step is worth the extra cost IMO.
I am willing to submit my car as the guinee pig for the speed switch. That sounds like it would work rather well.
Jason, if you and the folks at LPE want to go this route let me know. I can get all the neccessary additional items (switches/relays) myself and have a competent tuner install everything as well. This sounds like it would be an awesome way to install the 2-step. More expensive than whats currently available, but a MUCH cleaner install and not having to worry about flicking a switch at just the right moment to disengage the 2-step is worth the extra cost IMO.
09-27-2007, 11:44 AM
#36
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MPH based disable We are reprogramming two of the speed conversion boxes to give better functionality for this. This will be an added feature to the existing box (we have a unused 16 position selector switch already built into the circuit). We will do a couple quick checks here and then I will contact you. I am guess it will be early next week before we are ready to ship one of these speed output boxes.
Jason
Jason
Originally Posted by karthalin
I dont really have a lot of room to go any faster, heh. Once I hit 11.490 the track official is going to be kind of angry
I am willing to submit my car as the guinee pig for the speed switch. That sounds like it would work rather well.
Jason, if you and the folks at LPE want to go this route let me know. I can get all the neccessary additional items (switches/relays) myself and have a competent tuner install everything as well. This sounds like it would be an awesome way to install the 2-step. More expensive than whats currently available, but a MUCH cleaner install and not having to worry about flicking a switch at just the right moment to disengage the 2-step is worth the extra cost IMO.
I am willing to submit my car as the guinee pig for the speed switch. That sounds like it would work rather well.
Jason, if you and the folks at LPE want to go this route let me know. I can get all the neccessary additional items (switches/relays) myself and have a competent tuner install everything as well. This sounds like it would be an awesome way to install the 2-step. More expensive than whats currently available, but a MUCH cleaner install and not having to worry about flicking a switch at just the right moment to disengage the 2-step is worth the extra cost IMO.
09-27-2007, 12:42 PM
#37
Jason,
the tracking info for my controller says delivery on Friday. It will be installed this weekend, and I'll be sure to give all the info to you for another option for those that don't want to go the more expensive speed controller route (although admittedly it's going to be a much cleaner installation).
the tracking info for my controller says delivery on Friday. It will be installed this weekend, and I'll be sure to give all the info to you for another option for those that don't want to go the more expensive speed controller route (although admittedly it's going to be a much cleaner installation).
09-27-2007, 02:14 PM
#38
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My Tuner (Turbo Technology Inc. in Tacoma, Washington) has my car slated to get a 2-step installed on Thursday, Oct 4th. Test and Tune races are that Friday and possibly Satruday (Oct 5th and 6th). Hope I can test it out 
10-01-2007, 12:07 AM
#39
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2-step video and better instructions Someone asked for video. Here is a link to video of the 2-step on an engine on the dyno:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/LNC-001-17mg.mpg
I don't have video of it in a car yet but hopefully one of our customers will make some video available.
We have better instructions in process now that include wiring diagrams for the clutch switch and AT applications. Thanks to our beta testers for the help.
One customer tested the clutch switch wiring and allowed the 2-step to trigger during the shifts. He said it worked fine without any issues.
We still expect to have 2 of the vehicle speed based relay controllers done early this week for testing that as a method to turn off the 2-step once the car is moving.
BTW - we should have 10 more ready to ship out Monday or Tuesday.
Jason
http://www.lingenfelter.com/LNC-001-17mg.mpg
I don't have video of it in a car yet but hopefully one of our customers will make some video available.
We have better instructions in process now that include wiring diagrams for the clutch switch and AT applications. Thanks to our beta testers for the help.
One customer tested the clutch switch wiring and allowed the 2-step to trigger during the shifts. He said it worked fine without any issues.
We still expect to have 2 of the vehicle speed based relay controllers done early this week for testing that as a method to turn off the 2-step once the car is moving.
BTW - we should have 10 more ready to ship out Monday or Tuesday.
Jason
10-01-2007, 10:08 AM
#40
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So with using the clutch switch only, they managed to use it with no problem? Sounds good...
Just to re-cap, with the clutch switch the 2-step will be engaged everytime the clutch is pressed down to the floor, correct? As long as you are not letting the engine RPMs fall to below the launch RPMs and not flat footing you will be fine. I like it if people are getting it to work.
Just to re-cap, with the clutch switch the 2-step will be engaged everytime the clutch is pressed down to the floor, correct? As long as you are not letting the engine RPMs fall to below the launch RPMs and not flat footing you will be fine. I like it if people are getting it to work.