help me settle this debate
10-30-2009, 08:46 AM
#61
Just going to add some fuel to the fire.....
A few companies that have made cars that use DRILLED rotors...
BMW (M3 M5)
Porsche
Maclaren (F1)
Lambo
Funny how these high end car makers are all running them. im nots argueing that drilling dosen't reduce the strength of a rotor, it has to! I have also seen alot of high end racing cars running drilled rotors. i always remeber seeing Nissans BTCC (British Touring Car Championship) they had 18inch fornt rotors (drilled) with 2 sets of 4pot calipers (water cooled). oh and they ran iron rotors not carbon. this was in the 90's and carbon wasn't that conmon even in race cars.
Cheers
Chris.
A few companies that have made cars that use DRILLED rotors...
BMW (M3 M5)
Porsche
Maclaren (F1)
Lambo
Funny how these high end car makers are all running them. im nots argueing that drilling dosen't reduce the strength of a rotor, it has to! I have also seen alot of high end racing cars running drilled rotors. i always remeber seeing Nissans BTCC (British Touring Car Championship) they had 18inch fornt rotors (drilled) with 2 sets of 4pot calipers (water cooled). oh and they ran iron rotors not carbon. this was in the 90's and carbon wasn't that conmon even in race cars.
Cheers
Chris.
10-30-2009, 09:55 AM
#63
Where you have super expensive and well build, and HUGE rotors on cars that weigh less it's not an issue. We don't have 15" brakes, we have heavy but still fast cars, and the rear brakes don't do much of the work.
You apparently can't see the forest through the trees. Ok some fancy street cars have them, then why do the racing version of those cars (say a Porsche 997) NOT have drilled rotors? Riddle me that Batman.
At that, I will, on one of those rare occassions agree with Mitch and say Uncle.
You apparently can't see the forest through the trees. Ok some fancy street cars have them, then why do the racing version of those cars (say a Porsche 997) NOT have drilled rotors? Riddle me that Batman.
At that, I will, on one of those rare occassions agree with Mitch and say Uncle.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
10-30-2009, 10:24 AM
#64
Our track here is similar. They use the 1/4 as the straight. ~1/2 mile. I used to have a supercharged miata, with a whopping 130 gteched hp! I could get upto 160kph (Canadian) at the end of the straight. With a srt4/audiS4/subaru 265 I can get up to 200kph at the end of the straight.
I'd get your gtech checked, or your boost. Additionally, all wheel drive vehicles & traction control, for that matter, are for drivers whom require training wheels.
Miata + Pro (a real liscenced pro, not a trackday wanna be) > F-body + driver w/ no track experience, in a 10 lap race, all day long.
Drilled rotors SUCK!
10-30-2009, 10:55 AM
#65
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Braking 101 from Baer
http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-101/index.php
Braking 202 Baer
http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-202/index.php
Braking FAQ (with benefits and disadvantages of cross-drilled/zinc washing/slotted rotors)
http://www.baer.com/technical/faq/index.php
Click and read people, I've posted this before somewhere. They even say cross drilling isn't necessary, but it is done today for added weight savings. Every ounce counts today on our fat cars.
Wilwood FAQ for a second opinion.
http://www.wilwood.com/Start/Centers...pages/faqs.asp
http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-101/index.php
Braking 202 Baer
http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-202/index.php
Braking FAQ (with benefits and disadvantages of cross-drilled/zinc washing/slotted rotors)
http://www.baer.com/technical/faq/index.php
Click and read people, I've posted this before somewhere. They even say cross drilling isn't necessary, but it is done today for added weight savings. Every ounce counts today on our fat cars.
Wilwood FAQ for a second opinion.
http://www.wilwood.com/Start/Centers...pages/faqs.asp
Last edited by kain01; 10-30-2009 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Added Wilwood's FAQ.
10-30-2009, 11:32 AM
#67
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I understand that, Baer understands that, why they and wilwood call it an aesthetic upgrade. It's the manufacturer's that apparently don't get it.
10-30-2009, 05:56 PM
#69
He's talking about unsprung weight, of which effects handling. Not the same as removing weight from inside the car.
The problem w/ cross-drilling is that the negative effect it has on the rotor isn't worth the unsprung weight savings.
11-02-2009, 10:16 AM
#72
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You know - I think that I'm going to change my arguement.
I think that everyone else should race on cross-drilled rotors. They obviously provide a sizeable racing advantage for me. When you run these rotors, I think that you will not be able to outbrake me, thereby providing me with a sizeable advantage under braking.
I think that everyone else should race on cross-drilled rotors. They obviously provide a sizeable racing advantage for me. When you run these rotors, I think that you will not be able to outbrake me, thereby providing me with a sizeable advantage under braking.
11-02-2009, 12:57 PM
#73
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You know - I think that I'm going to change my arguement.
I think that everyone else should race on cross-drilled rotors. They obviously provide a sizeable racing advantage for me. When you run these rotors, I think that you will not be able to outbrake me, thereby providing me with a sizeable advantage under braking.
I think that everyone else should race on cross-drilled rotors. They obviously provide a sizeable racing advantage for me. When you run these rotors, I think that you will not be able to outbrake me, thereby providing me with a sizeable advantage under braking.
ill buy that. then if you beat me at a race ill take your car off your hands for $1K
11-04-2009, 06:55 AM
#75
Where you have super expensive and well build, and HUGE rotors on cars that weigh less it's not an issue. We don't have 15" brakes, we have heavy but still fast cars, and the rear brakes don't do much of the work.
You apparently can't see the forest through the trees. Ok some fancy street cars have them, then why do the racing version of those cars (say a Porsche 997) NOT have drilled rotors? Riddle me that Batman.
At that, I will, on one of those rare occassions agree with Mitch and say Uncle.
You apparently can't see the forest through the trees. Ok some fancy street cars have them, then why do the racing version of those cars (say a Porsche 997) NOT have drilled rotors? Riddle me that Batman.
At that, I will, on one of those rare occassions agree with Mitch and say Uncle.
Like i said not trying to be smart or anything.
Cheers
Chris.
11-19-2009, 09:17 AM
#76
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Our track here is similar. They use the 1/4 as the straight. ~1/2 mile. I used to have a supercharged miata, with a whopping 130 gteched hp! I could get upto 160kph (Canadian) at the end of the straight. With a srt4/audiS4/subaru 265 I can get up to 200kph at the end of the straight.
In my almost stock 09 subaru 265, I double lapped a girl in a 20 minute session in a mazda speed miata, and a guy in a gutless one (199x). My laps times are about 90 seconds. Faster guys are 85, super fast are 80 seconds. 20 seconds a lap is huge.
In my almost stock 09 subaru 265, I double lapped a girl in a 20 minute session in a mazda speed miata, and a guy in a gutless one (199x). My laps times are about 90 seconds. Faster guys are 85, super fast are 80 seconds. 20 seconds a lap is huge.
Which configuration are you running in ~90 seconds? Pro Track? My best time has been about ~74.5 seconds on the Pro configuration (there are 4 different configurations at Shannonville). My (radar confirmed) top speed down the straightaway was just a hair over ~180 km/h (~110 - 115 mph). The C5's were about the same.Compared to the Miatas at that track? Well, I don't see them much
. Even on STREET tires, with STOCK suspension, I ran 80 seconds flat in my '02 Z28 
.I'm still leaning on the side of the F-body over the Miata at VIR
.
11-20-2009, 04:36 PM
#77
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You must be referring to Shannonville?? Which configuration are you running in ~90 seconds? Pro Track? My best time has been about ~74.5 seconds on the Pro configuration (there are 4 different configurations at Shannonville). My (radar confirmed) top speed down the straightaway was just a hair over ~180 km/h (~110 - 115 mph). The C5's were about the same.
Compared to the Miatas at that track? Well, I don't see them much. Even on STREET tires, with STOCK suspension, I ran 80 seconds flat in my '02 Z28 .
I'm still leaning on the side of the F-body over the Miata at VIR.
Which configuration are you running in ~90 seconds? Pro Track? My best time has been about ~74.5 seconds on the Pro configuration (there are 4 different configurations at Shannonville). My (radar confirmed) top speed down the straightaway was just a hair over ~180 km/h (~110 - 115 mph). The C5's were about the same.Compared to the Miatas at that track? Well, I don't see them much
. Even on STREET tires, with STOCK suspension, I ran 80 seconds flat in my '02 Z28 .I'm still leaning on the side of the F-body over the Miata at VIR
.It was a great track, I really like the layout.
12-21-2010, 09:54 AM
#78
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I know this is an old post, but I might be able to settle the OP's question.
I was at a HPDE at VIR full course a couple of weeks ago and rode along in a mostly stock (tires, brakes, rollbar, seats, harnesses) Miata with my instructor who races NASA. In a 20 minute outing we never passed anyone but we waved cars by at just about every passing zone (front straight, bridge straight, and back straight). The instructor was waving in the rear mirror like a pagent queen in a parade through many of the non-passing sections to alert the cars waiting to pass as well. In my f-body I was seeing 140+ down the backstretch but the Miata would never crack 100mph. Full course is just too long and spread out to ever make up the huge hp defecit. This instructor was flat footing the car out of turn 5 and wouldn't lift at all until through the climbing esses, but all the other cars would still continue pulling away. I think the Miata was only running 90 max at the end of the climbing esses. Maybe an totally green rookie could/would get passed, but I think you would have to be extremely slow to get outrun by a stock miata on full course. The patriot course would be a much bigger challenge, however.
I was at a HPDE at VIR full course a couple of weeks ago and rode along in a mostly stock (tires, brakes, rollbar, seats, harnesses) Miata with my instructor who races NASA. In a 20 minute outing we never passed anyone but we waved cars by at just about every passing zone (front straight, bridge straight, and back straight). The instructor was waving in the rear mirror like a pagent queen in a parade through many of the non-passing sections to alert the cars waiting to pass as well. In my f-body I was seeing 140+ down the backstretch but the Miata would never crack 100mph. Full course is just too long and spread out to ever make up the huge hp defecit. This instructor was flat footing the car out of turn 5 and wouldn't lift at all until through the climbing esses, but all the other cars would still continue pulling away. I think the Miata was only running 90 max at the end of the climbing esses. Maybe an totally green rookie could/would get passed, but I think you would have to be extremely slow to get outrun by a stock miata on full course. The patriot course would be a much bigger challenge, however.
12-21-2010, 10:28 AM
#79
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Just to add to this, a smart instructor (or person in general) will not push 10/10ths with a passenger in the car with them as their is a lot of extra personal liability. Also, when you add an extra ~200 lbs to a Miata, it makes a huge difference versus a 300+hp fbody
12-21-2010, 10:52 AM
#80
If you show up at the track for the first time in your life be prepared to get your *** handed to you no matter what you drive. All the speed stuff on your ride won't make up for the fact that you don't know what your doing yet. Be prepared for you as a driver to be the loser not your car. That's the first lesson most of us learn. On the road course the car is a tool. The driver is the winner. Drag racers and street scene guys never understand this.
Last edited by Big Bu Bu; 12-21-2010 at 11:00 AM.