Suspension Upgrade Ideas
11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: gilbertsville, PA
So I guess we should swap our LS1 f-bodies for 6 cylinder f-bodies. Then we could run with the Z06s!
I bet the 2.8l 3rd gens are the way to go!
Give me a break!!
Yeah, some great driver w a v6 f-body could conceivably beat a horrible tool of a driver in a vette. But this is by no means a fair comparison. The more I think about the post, the angrier I get...
Alot has to do w/ driver, power to weight, setup, etc.
I could probably walk up behind Mike Tyson, hit him over the head with a 2x4, and knock him out. Then I could go around telling everyone about the time I knocked out Mike Tyson... Does that make a better boxer or tougher than Mike Tyson?
The question is can a f-body handle like a Z06. No. Not stock for stock or mod for mod. I love my Z28 to, but, lets start living in reality.
Stories of modded cars with good drivers passing old guys or poor drivers in stock Z06s at HPDEs does not make a civic nor a V-6 f-body a superior handling car!
Yes, a modded car on race tires with a good driver can pass an inexperienced driver in a stock car with street tires. This, however, is hardly a apple to apple comparison. Put a set of Hoosiers on an even stock Z06 (especially a C6 Z06) with a competent driver and no civic or V-6 f-body will pass it on an open track I assure you.
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
i messed around with a c6 z06 one night on some very empty back roads. couldn't outrun him but i kept up for a while. he couldn't shift for his life and probably wasn't pushing it very hard but he was definitely irritated that i was able to stay with him as well as i did.
here's a few past threads on it:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-corvette.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-well-zo6.html
go with a nice suspension setup, ditch a few hundred pounds, learn to drive, and get some reeeeally sticky tires. could probably take a stock one with an average driver.
here's a few past threads on it:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-corvette.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...-well-zo6.html
go with a nice suspension setup, ditch a few hundred pounds, learn to drive, and get some reeeeally sticky tires. could probably take a stock one with an average driver.
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
The whole question is a philosophical one, like whether a tree falling without anyone to hear it actually makes a sound.
Can an f-body handles phenominally? Yes. Can it be better than a stock Corvette? Yes. You can play the if/then game until the cows come home, but what does it get you? I don't know many folks who will go buy a Corvette instead of upgrading an f-body based on whether one can "handle" as well---they are completely different cars, differ suspension, different chassis, different prices, etc....
I can embarass most anything through a corner with a pony-car, even if I'm driving both cars, but of course level of prep has something to do with that. And more to the the point a big part of handling to me is confidence and sorry, but most stock Corvettes aren't confidence inspiring at the limit. Hell, read I think Car & Driver's article on the Grand Sport. It's fast, but also very edgy and not confidence inspiring. Good news is we can easily fix that (primarily a shock valving issue).
Can an f-body handles phenominally? Yes. Can it be better than a stock Corvette? Yes. You can play the if/then game until the cows come home, but what does it get you? I don't know many folks who will go buy a Corvette instead of upgrading an f-body based on whether one can "handle" as well---they are completely different cars, differ suspension, different chassis, different prices, etc....
I can embarass most anything through a corner with a pony-car, even if I'm driving both cars, but of course level of prep has something to do with that. And more to the the point a big part of handling to me is confidence and sorry, but most stock Corvettes aren't confidence inspiring at the limit. Hell, read I think Car & Driver's article on the Grand Sport. It's fast, but also very edgy and not confidence inspiring. Good news is we can easily fix that (primarily a shock valving issue).
Essentially I was approaching things from a platform angle, just doing a terrible job. I love my WS6. I think it looks fantastic compared to even a new Z06. Fact is, the Z06 platform from the get-go is flat out better.
What I'm trying to figure out for myself is if the F-Body platform will give me the handling characteristics to satisfy my corner carving desires, or if I should save the cash and start with a Corvette platform to meet my goals.
What are my goals?
It's a crapshoot because I've never been in a Strano prep F-Body.
I have been in a C5 Z06 absolutely flying around and I've been in a 1997 Camaro SS with a stage 2 suspension, sticky tires and a pretty peppy autocross driver behind the wheel. Both impressed me.The more I chew on this one the more I realize I'm just going to order some proven parts from you, stick them on the WS6 and get on with it. At the end of that road, if I'm still not satisfied, then I'll look at other options.
I have a feeling I will more than happy.
...
What I'm trying to figure out for myself is if the F-Body platform will give me the handling characteristics to satisfy my corner carving desires, or if I should save the cash and start with a Corvette platform to meet my goals.
...
The more I chew on this one the more I realize I'm just going to order some proven parts from you, stick them on the WS6 and get on with it. At the end of that road, if I'm still not satisfied, then I'll look at other options.
I have a feeling I will more than happy.
What I'm trying to figure out for myself is if the F-Body platform will give me the handling characteristics to satisfy my corner carving desires, or if I should save the cash and start with a Corvette platform to meet my goals.
...
The more I chew on this one the more I realize I'm just going to order some proven parts from you, stick them on the WS6 and get on with it. At the end of that road, if I'm still not satisfied, then I'll look at other options.
I have a feeling I will more than happy.
I'm just enforcing the point that the Z06 is better platform from the start, and therefore an unfair or unrealistic comparison.
So I guess we should swap our LS1 f-bodies for 6 cylinder f-bodies. Then we could run with the Z06s!
I bet the 2.8l 3rd gens are the way to go!
Give me a break!!
Yeah, some great driver w a v6 f-body could conceivably beat a horrible tool of a driver in a vette. But this is by no means a fair comparison. The more I think about the post, the angrier I get...
I in no way, shape or form said to just all go to V6's. I'm not a V6 nutswinger either. I just said it comes down to a competent driver and seat time.
It is plain as day knowledge that the Corvette is a better platform to start from. I've heard of a few guys dropping their modded F-body and going for a C5 or C6 and taking up where they left off. It is much more of a purpose built car for that niche.
To tell you the truth there were others out there that were pretty skilled at auto-x. You don't need to get your panties in a bunch. You can throw your BS flag up all you want.
I in no way, shape or form said to just all go to V6's. I'm not a V6 nutswinger either. I just said it comes down to a competent driver and seat time.
It is plain as day knowledge that the Corvette is a better platform to start from. I've heard of a few guys dropping their modded F-body and going for a C5 or C6 and taking up where they left off. It is much more of a purpose built car for that niche.
I in no way, shape or form said to just all go to V6's. I'm not a V6 nutswinger either. I just said it comes down to a competent driver and seat time.
It is plain as day knowledge that the Corvette is a better platform to start from. I've heard of a few guys dropping their modded F-body and going for a C5 or C6 and taking up where they left off. It is much more of a purpose built car for that niche.
You are right, though, a driver can make all the difference.
To that end I witnessed a new ZR1 run a mid 14 second quarter. My 02 Z28 set up for road racing and w stock LS1 was running 13.4s at 108 (horrible 2.2-2.4 60 fts). I was embarrassed for that guy! I wish I could have got lined up against him. I would have loved to had a story of smoking a new ZR1 in my Z28. That was drag racing, and the guy clearly could not muster the skill to get down the track quickly. Imagine how bad he would have looked on a road course!
Anyway, I just seem to get ryalled up when people make comparisons that are really about drivers, when the question was about cars.
Yeah, it's really hard to hide when you're at a driving performance event and the times are there for everybody to see. Just glad the ZR1 owner didn't stuff it into the wall.
I love the David and Goliath battles between different class cars. It makes races that much more exciting, and it can be a very rewarding experience for the drivers.
I'd love it if we had a road course out here. I know exactly where I'd spend my free time
I love the David and Goliath battles between different class cars. It makes races that much more exciting, and it can be a very rewarding experience for the drivers.
I'd love it if we had a road course out here. I know exactly where I'd spend my free time
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo 11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: gilbertsville, PA
My point is this:
Go to a NASA Thunder race and watch a few civics pass alot of V8's. These are CMC, AI, AIX, and whatever the corvette class is called (ST1, 2???) The fastest civics aren't passing the fastest cars in the group, but these people all have their competition licenses, and a good portion are being passed by little buzz bombs that probably weigh 1500 lbs w/ driver, if that.
In the time trial competition, a TTC civic SI was faster than EVERY TTB and all but one TTA car. He was even faster than 1/2 of the TTS field.
here's the link:
http://www.get-fast.net/temp/sunday_...july09_vir.pdf
This was at VIR, a horsepower track.
So, what was it that made the Civic faster than all but 1 higher classed driver??? Is he that great of a driver he can pass all of these high HP cars? Is his car set up better than most of the other cars? Is his power to weight better than all these cars? Maybe it's a combination of things.
I hope that I was able to clarify things for you...
TECH Resident
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 0
From: North Dallas
Well put. I think I should have phrased what I was asking a little better.
Essentially I was approaching things from a platform angle, just doing a terrible job. I love my WS6. I think it looks fantastic compared to even a new Z06. Fact is, the Z06 platform from the get-go is flat out better.
What I'm trying to figure out for myself is if the F-Body platform will give me the handling characteristics to satisfy my corner carving desires, or if I should save the cash and start with a Corvette platform to meet my goals.
What are my goals?
It's a crapshoot because I've never been in a Strano prep F-Body. I have been in a C5 Z06 absolutely flying around and I've been in a 1997 Camaro SS with a stage 2 suspension, sticky tires and a pretty peppy autocross driver behind the wheel. Both impressed me.
The more I chew on this one the more I realize I'm just going to order some proven parts from you, stick them on the WS6 and get on with it. At the end of that road, if I'm still not satisfied, then I'll look at other options.
I have a feeling I will more than happy.
Essentially I was approaching things from a platform angle, just doing a terrible job. I love my WS6. I think it looks fantastic compared to even a new Z06. Fact is, the Z06 platform from the get-go is flat out better.
What I'm trying to figure out for myself is if the F-Body platform will give me the handling characteristics to satisfy my corner carving desires, or if I should save the cash and start with a Corvette platform to meet my goals.
What are my goals?
It's a crapshoot because I've never been in a Strano prep F-Body.
I have been in a C5 Z06 absolutely flying around and I've been in a 1997 Camaro SS with a stage 2 suspension, sticky tires and a pretty peppy autocross driver behind the wheel. Both impressed me.The more I chew on this one the more I realize I'm just going to order some proven parts from you, stick them on the WS6 and get on with it. At the end of that road, if I'm still not satisfied, then I'll look at other options.
I have a feeling I will more than happy.
My point is this:
Go to a NASA Thunder race and watch a few civics pass alot of V8's. These are CMC, AI, AIX, and whatever the corvette class is called (ST1, 2???) The fastest civics aren't passing the fastest cars in the group, but these people all have their competition licenses, and a good portion are being passed by little buzz bombs that probably weigh 1500 lbs w/ driver, if that.
In the time trial competition, a TTC civic SI was faster than EVERY TTB and all but one TTA car. He was even faster than 1/2 of the TTS field.
here's the link:
http://www.get-fast.net/temp/sunday_...july09_vir.pdf
This was at VIR, a horsepower track.
So, what was it that made the Civic faster than all but 1 higher classed driver??? Is he that great of a driver he can pass all of these high HP cars? Is his car set up better than most of the other cars? Is his power to weight better than all these cars? Maybe it's a combination of things.
I hope that I was able to clarify things for you...
Go to a NASA Thunder race and watch a few civics pass alot of V8's. These are CMC, AI, AIX, and whatever the corvette class is called (ST1, 2???) The fastest civics aren't passing the fastest cars in the group, but these people all have their competition licenses, and a good portion are being passed by little buzz bombs that probably weigh 1500 lbs w/ driver, if that.
In the time trial competition, a TTC civic SI was faster than EVERY TTB and all but one TTA car. He was even faster than 1/2 of the TTS field.
here's the link:
http://www.get-fast.net/temp/sunday_...july09_vir.pdf
This was at VIR, a horsepower track.
So, what was it that made the Civic faster than all but 1 higher classed driver??? Is he that great of a driver he can pass all of these high HP cars? Is his car set up better than most of the other cars? Is his power to weight better than all these cars? Maybe it's a combination of things.
I hope that I was able to clarify things for you...
My point, in questioning your point, is that this tread is asking if a F-body can handle like a Z06. It is a question of mechanical ability of the chassis. Not if you put a great driver in car A, can it beat car B.
The better driver issue is not the point of the thread. I'm sure his question is would he (or any same driver) be faster in a Z06, or F-body. Driver skill aside (as it doesn't change the actual cars ability to "handle") the Z06 is a better handling car, period.
OK....
My point, in questioning your point, is that this tread is asking if a F-body can handle like a Z06. It is a question of mechanical ability of the chassis. Not if you put a great driver in car A, can it beat car B.
The better driver issue is not the point of the thread. I'm sure his question is would he (or any same driver) be faster in a Z06, or F-body. Driver skill aside (as it doesn't change the actual cars ability to "handle") the Z06 is a better handling car, period.
My point, in questioning your point, is that this tread is asking if a F-body can handle like a Z06. It is a question of mechanical ability of the chassis. Not if you put a great driver in car A, can it beat car B.
The better driver issue is not the point of the thread. I'm sure his question is would he (or any same driver) be faster in a Z06, or F-body. Driver skill aside (as it doesn't change the actual cars ability to "handle") the Z06 is a better handling car, period.
Is a stock Z06 better than a stock f-body? Ahhhh, yeah. Is a stock Z06 better than a well-prepped f-body? Not necessarily. Is a prepped Z06 better than a prepped f-body? Probably, but maybe not as much as one would think.
Look the Corvette is better balanced and lighter. Not bad things. But they are often run too low, with lousy shocks, way too big a rear swaybar, and by people who blindly think that it's a Corvette it must be better. And honestly, with track days all you can do is look at who it running over who in the corners, because overall lap time has so much to do with power to weight. Even a dog handling car can run pretty fast if you can out engine a better handling car.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Im not going to Argue what car is better, But I would just like to mention that I spend a good couple days talking with and bouncing Ideas off sam back in 05 over the phone (I was deployed overseas soo seeing him in person wasnt much of an option) and with his advice and help I mirrored my gen 4 camaro off his personal setup, It handles like a dream, I have driven it for over 8 hour on road trips and put it through the corners in Auto-x events, If I ever wanted to change the set-up or look at going with a Corvette, Sam would be the first person I would give a call to when looking to replace the stock set-up.
I would just worry about what i can do with the car that i have. one of my first Auto-x events i watched a new C-6 just kill everything on the track that same day one of the worst running cars was also a Stock C-6. the Driver really make the car in the end.
I would just worry about what i can do with the car that i have. one of my first Auto-x events i watched a new C-6 just kill everything on the track that same day one of the worst running cars was also a Stock C-6. the Driver really make the car in the end.
1. 4/4 Koni's, 2. A set of Sam's sway bars. 3. adjustable PHB, A pair of 1LE rear control arms. Don't lower it! just creates other problems with roll center and bump steer and control arm angles.
