That's probably because it's harder to control the amount of boost they run where displacement is pretty tough to fool.

 

Couldn't resist here....this is so true!

I have a buddy who is running over 20psi of boost in his EVO IX, who runs in BSP. Which is probably not legal. Another buddy is also running over 20psi in a 90s AWD DSM running in stock class! LoL Alot of complaints later he had to re class and run in the prepped class.

I hate it when the local rally cars go out there an then claim it's stock. What a bunch of garbage.

 

On basic engineering math (not done by me!! Keep in mind this is based off racing life cycles in T-1 racing. Also my 350* number is because I don't want to dig through countless brake engineering emails to find the exact temp, this is close enough; the Wilwood and AP #'s are 100% exactly what I have been told by engineers):

C5 calipers have a life cycle of 3 weekends. 1 weekend usually consists of (3) 20 minute sessions and 2 30-40 minute races (regional/national). I'm not the only person to reach rotor/caliper temps I mentioned. Some C6 guys have actually recorded HIGHER rotor temps (scary).

1 heat cycle= the caliper reaches or exceeds 350*. If you have 4 hard brake zones on the track say from ~140 down to ~60 (AAA Speedway and Buttonwillow here in CA), that means you heat cycled the calipers 4 times EVERY lap. So to me, the stock calipers have a heat cycle life of about 540 heat cycles until the alloy has reached an unsafe operable condition (at least for the track).

**The above estimate/calculation I did based on my track time and when I spread my calipers.

Upgrading to Wilwood SL6R slims yields you about 3,000 heat cycles until the alloy breaks down to an unsafe condition (Non-Wilwood engineers confirmed this)

The AP 8350 bespoke (custom piston sizes for Corvettes) will yield 20,000 heat cycles. The AP is currently on the brake dyno at the factory right now before they will ship to us. (AP is living by this, and 2 outside engineers have confirmed this)

Gary Hoffman at HarbarUSA is the direct distributor for AP on this kit. He's also our main brake tech/engineer and has been working directly with AP engineers to design this caliper for us. There's been comments by a couple others that I don't know there credentials that there's no real way to confirm these heat cycle calcs due to having too many varying factors. So take them as you please.

I'll definitely update my brake condition for when I get the APs mounted along with AP 2 piece full floating 12.8" 72 vain nascar rotors God this things gonna be a blast to race with the new setup

 

That is a lot of great info man. Good to know if I decide to win the lottery and run T1 lol, glad the SCCA gave you guys a break as well with the calipers. I have seen a C5 Z06 at Sebring lose it's brakes around turn 14 (those long winding S's before the back stretch) and go right into a wall, figured it was a user error, later came to find out it was a brake failure.

I'm still debating on what to do, got some time to decide anyways, car needs a lot of work before it goes on the road.

 

T1's a blast. We have 6 Corvettes (had 7, but he crashed today in practice at the Long Beach Grand Prix, he's ok, car's totalled ) and a Porsche in our division. Our consumable costs just went down and we can actually race from the beginning to the end, so we're pretty excited too!!

 

thats cool! thanks for the reminder to DVR the ALMS race as well, plus Conti Challenge.

I've helped out a friend a lot who runs in IT7, love the T1 class, but until these student loans are paid off and I find a real job that applies to my degree, it'll be a while before I could even fathom T1. So for now I gotta finish this car and use it for AutoX/shows.

 

I converted from 98+ F-Car two piston calipers to C5 calipers in 2007 and haven't seen this kind of spread. I was spreading the F-Car calipers about as often as you describe, but the C5s I have are serving well.

I did install the Doug Rippy pistons and I use Castrol SRF fluid.

But as often as you were spreading calipers, I doubt either of those differences would make a difference.

Any brake cooling?

 

Interesting. What's your minimum weight and what weight are you at with you and fuel? Our min is 3180 with fuel/driver, and if you do the brake upgrade then 3230, and starting races I'm around 3,300

When I put the C6Z51 calipers on I put DRMs SS pistons in too (yup, I was cheating for my safety ), but I voiced that on the SCCA forum and no one even argued. The temps I listed were actually with the SS pistons. They were worth maybe 1 extra lap of decent braking at Infineon. For cooling we had to use the stock C5Z ducts mated to an extender made by DRM. We just got the approval of a spindle mount by Quantum, so that should help too.

Biggest problem is there's just so much heat soak in there with the inadequate cooling we had. I honestly don't know how some of the other T-1 guys are running anything less than SRF fluid

 

As far as stainless steel lines go...what should I use lol?

And SIK, I hear more and more stuff about the SCCA every day that makes me scratch my head. You are trying to find a safe and cost effective braking system, and they'll try and turn it around to say that you are trying to gain a competitive advantage.

 

I got the SS lines for my camaro from Strano. I can't see there being one better than another. I just figured I'd support a sponsor/racer.

the scca CRB's famous sayings/responses to requests are: "car is competitive as classified" and "xxx modification is not within the Touring class philosophy."

The sad part is though, even after multiple (different) pictures of stacks of rotors and a couple spent/spread sets of calipers from a Runoffs weekend a few years in a row from different drivers, it took up to last year with 2 big brake failures and crashes that lead to 2 drivers being airlifted out for the CRB to finally allow the Corvette crowd to upgrade our brakes. Too little too late. Fortunately both drivers are okay and have recovered.

 

Which is why I'm leaning towards NASA and the Honda Challenge series lol.

And I've heard of some SS lines being very short and taught for the f-bodies which is why i ask

 

s2000 or fwd? either way it'll be fun

ahh, never heard of that. I did the brakes on my Camaro a few weeks ago, the lines I got from Sam seem to be of adequate length for me, but i've never compared them to any others

 

FWD...parts for 92-95 Civics are way cheap and plentiful. The car was a GRM $200x challenge car I bought from a friend. The only thing I really can use from all the radical mods from it are well....the gutted interior and race seat. Gotta drop the turbo, ebay suspension, rear x-brace, etc. But I should be able to sell all that stuff to 16 year olds trying to be JDM and ****

 

hahaha, nice man!

 

For autoX only, I would want lighter brakes with aggressive pads that work at the temps expected.

I did the C5 brake upgrade long long ago, and it was not really much of an upgrade IMO.

 

I'm still debating, the more I think about it the more I say that to myself. It's a toss up because just upgrading rotors, lines, and pads will only save me $100 over the big brakes. Decisions, decisions.

 

I would advocate some reading on brake lines before purchasing stainless braided lines. Most aren't DOT approved, or a good option for a street car. OEM lines are fine for an autoX/street/HPDE car IMO.

Actually I like OEM LS1 F-body pads too, and never had an issue autocrossing on them. As a bonus they dust far less than anything else. I have been >160mph a couple dozen times on OEM LS1 brake pads.

My advice would be:
OEM rear pads: $75
OEM or Carbotech front pads (call Larry for a recommendation and the amusement factor): $100-$200
NAPA or AZ rotors (I would buy from each, weigh them and return the heavies: <$80
OEM front lines: Not sure but betting less than the aftermarket parts
Castrol SRF: $80 brake fluid, I know, just put it in and forget it. Forever.

If you want to HPDE the car, throw some Carbotech XP10's or Performance Friction 01 pads up front on new front rotors, and tear it up.

 

I currently have Porterfield RS4s on there with AZ blanks front and rear. But I really only have one autox under my belt with those and about 1000 miles of driving. The car has been sitting and the rotors are rusty and nasty, lines are old, I was planning on purchasing these lines from Strano as they are D.O.T. approved
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=195&ModelID=8

I have a ton of ATE super blue laying around as well...I mean would it really be worth buying the SRF right now if I have that for the time being?

Also what about Front A-Arms any benefit to going tubular besides losing 8lbs?

 

The ATE fluid is fine, just won't last nearly as long. If I had it, I would use it. Really for autocross, SRF is gross overkill. What was I thinking?

I use R4S for street pads on the Porsche brakes on my T/A, and they kinda suck. I bet you would like OEM F-body pads better, honestly.

I don't know enough about the strut setup on a thirdgen to give advice.

 

This is for my fourth gen, sorry, I don't keep my sig up to date.