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335 Square Setup... am I crazy?

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Old 12-10-2016, 12:23 PM   #21
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I literally got my Koni/Strano setup months before they came out with the UMI/Strano coilover kit. I would love a coilover setup but unless I absolutely need a coilover setup I'd like to spend the money elseware.



What tires do you recommend? Once I get the R888's warmed up they're very sticky. So far my MOOG hubs are holding up just fine. Once they get some play I plan on swapping them out as they came with a 3 year warranty.
Coil overs allow corner balancing (with adj sway bar end links) and height adjustment along with easier spring rate tuning. If neither of those things really matter to you, then CO aren't worth the money. If I did it over again I would have gone straight to CO, but they weren't available when I bought my setup.

While R888 may not be bad, there are better...like a Hoosier/Kumho slick. IMO if you wanting to be serious, have a dedicated race wheel/tire combo. Buy some OEM 10-spokes and put 275/40/17 all seasons on them and bring the Forgestar's to the track.

I'm not too interested to keep swapping hubs if/when there is a problem. IMO I'd rather spend the money on a proper setup and never have to deal with it. I would buy a spare hub and bring it on race days JUST in case one breaks or develops play. I DD my car a lot so it's not breaking a hub on a autocross track that scares me, it's casual highway driving with my wife/dogs in the car when it breaks that scares the crap out of me.



FYI, I spoke to John at HPE this weekend at PRI show in IN...I looked at the rebuildable hubs he offers and got the history of it...he made it because he was unaware of the SKF C5 race hubs. He also said he doesn't know if he will make another batch in the future...sooo that is an issue IMO for service etc. They are supposedly "standard" off the shelf tapered roller bearings but everything else is customer machined pieces. So if you damage a part, and they no longer make them....you are SOL or need to have a new one machined. There are standard shims that need to be machined down to the correct OD for proper bearing preload. All of this makes me worried.

The machined adapter and off the shelf SKF race hub IMO is a easier, more robust and reliable setup. No need to deal with preload if your rebuild the HPE unit, no worry about part availability etc. You can go directly back to SKF with any issues. I asked if HPE would design/manufacture an adapter now they he knows about the SKF hubs and it wasn't a yes or no...it would be very easy for them to if they had money/resources to make a full hub assembly.

Last edited by smitty2919; 12-10-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 12-10-2016, 04:56 PM   #22
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That's exactly why I went the adapter route, I knew I could always get hubs and somebody somewhere would have the SKFs in stock. Broke two ten bolts in 3 events but the front hubs have been taking beatings from 315 Hoosiers all season with not a single issue. They should last many, many more.
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Old 12-10-2016, 05:09 PM   #23
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^Very good to know! Thanks
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Old 12-10-2016, 08:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
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The fays2 watts link is well made and was a fairly simple install. On a second gen, however, it is difficult to route a large exhaust past it. My dual 3" exhaust terminates just before my rear axle because of that.
Ok yea I went with pre-axle dumps mainly to avoid the issues of routing dual exhaust over the axle.

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Originally Posted by smitty2919 View Post
Coil overs allow corner balancing (with adj sway bar end links) and height adjustment along with easier spring rate tuning. If neither of those things really matter to you, then CO aren't worth the money. If I did it over again I would have gone straight to CO, but they weren't available when I bought my setup.

While R888 may not be bad, there are better...like a Hoosier/Kumho slick. IMO if you wanting to be serious, have a dedicated race wheel/tire combo. Buy some OEM 10-spokes and put 275/40/17 all seasons on them and bring the Forgestar's to the track.
I would love all the adjustability that comes along with it but I can't take a $2k hit right now. Maybe during a sale or when I get my tax returns.

As for tires, I now kind of regret selling my OEM wheels. But if I get some dedicated race wheels/tires I have no idea how I'm gunna fit four 315 wheels in my car along with all my tools/chairs/food...etc. Has anyone rigged up some sort of hitch and small trailer to haul all their stuff to the track?
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Old 12-10-2016, 11:28 PM   #25
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Yes but you don't need it. I'll have no issue toting 335s and tools/chair/clothes etc
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:09 PM   #26
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It may be possible, but IMO I would rather a trailer instead of stuffing dirty wheels in/out of a car. Something like these are very popular.





You will need to find a hitch system for our cars.
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty2919 View Post

FYI, I spoke to John at HPE this weekend at PRI show in IN...I looked at the rebuildable hubs he offers and got the history of it...he made it because he was unaware of the SKF C5 race hubs. He also said he doesn't know if he will make another batch in the future...sooo that is an issue IMO for service etc. They are supposedly "standard" off the shelf tapered roller bearings but everything else is customer machined pieces. So if you damage a part, and they no longer make them....you are SOL or need to have a new one machined. There are standard shims that need to be machined down to the correct OD for proper bearing preload. All of this makes me worried.

The machined adapter and off the shelf SKF race hub IMO is a easier, more robust and reliable setup. No need to deal with preload if your rebuild the HPE unit, no worry about part availability etc. You can go directly back to SKF with any issues. I asked if HPE would design/manufacture an adapter now they he knows about the SKF hubs and it wasn't a yes or no...it would be very easy for them to if they had money/resources to make a full hub assembly.
+1 for SKF and adapters...
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Old 12-11-2016, 07:17 PM   #28
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I have a Reese trailer hitch for a 4th gen sitting in my basement if anyone wants it.
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Old 12-12-2016, 08:05 AM   #29
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I have a Reese trailer hitch for a 4th gen sitting in my basement if anyone wants it.
​​​​​​Pm sent on trailer hitch.
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Old 12-15-2016, 12:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981TA View Post
The fays2 watts link is well made and was a fairly simple install. On a second gen, however, it is difficult to route a large exhaust past it. My dual 3" exhaust terminates just before my rear axle because of that.
Do you have any under-car video before & after the watts link?
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:01 PM   #31
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This is my 95 Z28 on the back Wilmington OH airport pad where some national events are held. 275/40/17 Kumho V710's on OEM camaro SS wheels. Strano springs/koni shocks/ST front bar/hellwig rear bar


Another video but on the front employee parking lot.
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:34 PM   #32
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The BMR piece is a poorly designed rat trap.
Can you elaborate on this?
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981TA View Post
The fays2 watts link is well made and was a fairly simple install. On a second gen, however, it is difficult to route a large exhaust past it. My dual 3" exhaust terminates just before my rear axle because of that.
On a 2nd Gen, Our Torque Arm Kit with integrated Watts Link is Sweet. Plenty of room for a 3" Exhaust.

This is my '73 that I am finishing up!

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Old 12-15-2016, 04:06 PM   #34
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Can you elaborate on this?
The way the watts link bolts to the factory panhard mount will create a lot of bending forces, and will eventually cause the factory mount to fail. It is not designed to take those forces.
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:25 PM   #35
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That mount is designed to handle the lateral forces being applied from the axle. With our setup, it is static and braces directly to the other frame rail. With a watts link you don't have the force being applied in one direction like with a panhard also. The links provide opposing force on the pivot. All that support bar has to do is hold the pivot in place. There is actually probably less force applied to that mount than in a panhard bar configuration
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:30 PM   #36
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I doubt we will ever see eye to eye on this one, and I respect your company so I don't want to turn this into a pissing match. It's just I've seen that mount fail before, entirely a fault of GM's engineering.

I do love your torque arm and watts link setups for the classics, though. Please start a thread to show us more about your 73.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I doubt we will ever see eye to eye on this one, and I respect your company so I don't want to turn this into a pissing match. It's just I've seen that mount fail before, entirely a fault of GM's engineering.

I do love your torque arm and watts link setups for the classics, though. Please start a thread to show us more about your 73.
That is my car and I will start a Thread - I'm doing the Exhaust this weekend!

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Old 12-17-2016, 07:46 PM   #38
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wow, that car is gorgeous. Me like :-)

Here's a pic of my watts link. It's not as glamorous, but oh well. It's freezing here, and my toy is hibernating in the garage. A couple things to point out:

1. The car has composite leafs, and the maker (Hypercoils) doesn't have a "lowered" version of them yet. I'm making do with 1" lowering blocks + relocated the front spring mounts 3/4" upward into the pockets. I'll probably do something similar for the rears if I get motivated enough.

2. the exhaust can easily run under the watts link, but it would also have to run under the rear axle.

3. The two bolts in the axle tubes, on either side of the diff cover, are there to keep the axles from twisting in the diff housing. They are not part of the Watts link setup.




Fays2 Watts Link on 1981 Trans Am
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981TA View Post
wow, that car is gorgeous. Me like :-)

Here's a pic of my watts link. It's not as glamorous, but oh well. It's freezing here, and my toy is hibernating in the garage. A couple things to point out:

1. The car has composite leafs, and the maker (Hypercoils) doesn't have a "lowered" version of them yet. I'm making do with 1" lowering blocks + relocated the front spring mounts 3/4" upward into the pockets. I'll probably do something similar for the rears if I get motivated enough.

Fays2 Watts Link on 1981 Trans Am

We're using 2" drop from CustomWorks. I just wondered if you had any vids. Is the install in your build thread?
I don't want to hijack this gentleman's thread.

Last edited by 95wannabe; 12-17-2016 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:27 AM   #40
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I really don't think the 335 is worth the modifying, wheels, or making your car wider.

315's work fine, your car will be plenty light compared to the biggest cars that might need 335's. Also has anyone seen the 355 Square first gen?
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