25 April 2021
Autocross - Musselman Honda Circuit, Tucson AZ

Took the car out for an AutoX event today. Made 9 passes. Ran under the Street Modified class. The times are listed below. The circuit was around a Go-Kart track, but it was really enjoyable nonetheless. I was able to better my times (almost) every run. Pass 1 was very slow, I had walked the course twice, but was not extremely comfortable with the course yet. After that I hit a cone, but what can ya' do, right? I progressively got better and better until pass 7, where I got a DNF. I was getting a little squirley on the final weave, lost a bit of control and dead smacked a cone. At that point, I was too far gone and was not able to make the last weave, so I committed to my mess-up. After that, I went right back out and was able to shave off a few more seconds here and there.

Now, onto the car. First, the car is definitely not setup for Autocross. It has an unknown suspension mod (maybe cut springs, I have no clue), 305's in the rear and 265's up front. Pair that with the awkward springs and you get a car that is not very confidence inspiring around corners. Also, one of the gentlemen at the track was watching my runs and noticed a ton of body roll and the front swaying and snapping back, said that maybe a sway bar will remedy that.

At this point, I don't know what direction I want to go. I could dump a dumb amount of money into this car, and have fun in the process, but lose out on a lot. I think what I want to do though, is sell the Camaro and get a Corvette. I was thinking a C5, as that is much more reasonably priced, and plus, who doesn't like pop-up up-and-down headlights? But I have not done any research on the AutoX prospects of either the C5 or C6. On one hand, the C5 is more cost effective, on the other hand the C6 is mad rad IMO. What do you all think? I feel like dumping money into this car is a massive mistake, I mean, the exterior is 4/10, the interior is 5/10 and the drivetrain is maybe 5/10. I mean it would take a lot of time, money and effort to get this car to do what I want, and I am wondering if a Corvette is just an all around better option.

1: 66.435
2: 57.996 (+1)
3: 55.909
4: 53.583
5: 49.518
6: 49.184
7: 49.492 (DNF)
8: 47.598
9: 47.176

You Tube

 

I will share my experience. I have had my car for 20 yrs now, ugh. It wasn't set up for AutoX and I ran some and it was sort of fun, but not competitive. My neighbor bought a C5 FRC and I made it my mission to beat his car. I was a good 2 sec behind as my starting point. Now I have spent a "bit" of money and a lot of time dialing the car in. It still weighs 3400#. I consistently run faster than his car and my car has done pretty well overall. The last AutoX with 162 cars I finished 5th raw time... many Vettes and one C5 Z06 finished ahead of me by 0.2 sec. There were C5/C6/C7/C8 vettes there.

My point, C5 are incredibly competent AutoX cars and a great way to go fast cheaper. If you want to be different and put the time and money into it, an F-body can really scoot. A 6th gen camaro, even as a 4cyl, is a killer AutoX car as well and easier to drive fast as a novice.

 

Springs, shocks, and sway bars are transformative on an f-body and don't cost a mint. After that it's just tires (and maybe wheels) and you'll have that expense with whatever you run.

 

My 2 cents...
I agree with rented mule, shocks, springs, sways are cheap entry and make all the difference. Plus tires and pads (which you will spend on any car) and the 4th gen isn't bad, I surprise a lot of people on track and I'm not even a great driver but still pass my share of better cars. Learn to drive the f body fast then you will be better in a faster car too.

Definitely draw a line of where to stop though. I've had mine for 12 years and have spent more time and money than I should but now have a pretty quick street car. If I could do it again I would have done basic suspension and bolt ons and stopped. Then upgrade cars when my driving ability reached the cars limit. My next step will likely be a built Vette, let someone else take the financial hit and time of sorting things out. Many people can jump into a fast car and be fine, it about being realistic. I know that if I started with a capable car, I would have a hard time learning.

Another choice is a newer sports car and keep it stock. The SS 1le Camaros are ridiculously quick as well as gt350/500 Mustangs, C7/8...

 

00PewterSS, Thanks for your input. I ran the numbers, and if I were to build the Camaro to where I THINK I want the car, it would run me around $5500. That still put's me at less than half the cost of a C5. I really do love the F-Body, and don't see too many around my area, so I think I made up my mind. I have an idea I want to test, but don't want to put it here, in case people try to change my mind. I will be posting updates hopefully soon.

 

Those are on my build list. I think I am going to go with some Hawk HPS pads, front/rear sway bars, panhard bar, springs, and LCA's

 

I do like the 6th gen Camaro's, and have ridden in a GT350 quite a few times. They are amazing, but my pockets are not deep enough for those cars. I am keeping myself to a pretty strict budget, and after running the numbers, think I am gonna build this car a bit, then when I feel I can reasonably afford a C5/C6, do that. I appreciate the input!

 

I do not know how nuts you plan to go or if you want to try to optimize the car for AutoX. I'll just give you my input if you want it or not about pad selection. Rear wheel hop is a real problem in these cars when you start getting AutoX tires on them. You can make it better with all the suspension parts, but ultimately you will end up reducing brake bias to the rear, one way to do that is with pads. My car has Carbotech front pads, and ACDelco ceramic in the rear, even HPS would cause wheel hop. HPS are a good street pad, but are not that aggressive, if you really want it to stop (and dust terribly and sound like a dump truck) you want something more aggressive, HP+ even. If my pads ever wear out, I would buy G-LOC.

FWIW I drove an AutoX today. I ran exactly with a Camaro SS 1LE properly prepped with a good driver (.003 sec) and about .05 ahead of a C5 Z06 also well prepped with a good driver. I have a lot of money into my car... tires alone are $1500.

 

Before making any mods, be sure and read the class rules very closely. You don't want to bump yourself in to a class where you can't be competitive.

Do your research carefully. And do the mods that get you a lot of bang for the buck. You don't need to beat everyone, just everyone in your class.

The two most important investments are seat time, and professional instruction. If you spend $250 on some professional coaching, it will pay you back much more than that set of unobtanium brake pads.

 

It was fun tinkering with my 95 LT1 Camaro:
Custom E85 setup
UMI coilovers 850/250 springs
Suspension Technique Front swaybar
Hellwig Rear swaybar
Unbalanced Engineering decoupled torque arm
Fay's 2 Watts Link
315 square Rivals
LS1 front brakes HPS brake pads

It did well for what it was, but it was no competition for my current C5Z with the following:
Viking coilovers
C6 ZR1 front swaybar
Stock rear swayabr
315 square Rivals
Stock brakes HPS front pads

C5's just work with minimal mods. I bet if you drove your friends FRC and got comfortable you would be faster than in your Fbody. Like people have said, depends on your goals. Although Fbody's are now in CAM-T. They were falling behind last year being in CAM-C with the newer Camaros/Mustangs.

Keep an eye on C5 prices. "High mileage" cars can be found for $10-15K. A decent Fbody at $5-7K plus all those mods over time...you get into C5 territory.