BobC

Do you have a race suspension? If not, you are not going to beat an M in the turns. I have a full road race formula and an M roadster, as well as a T/A with WS6 suspension. My race car on race rubber might be the stock M's equal in the turns, but not my T/A. On the track, the BMW's kill me in the braking zones and turns, but I make it back on straightaways.

OdessitPashka

iTrader: (8)

It's not M, it's 528i with M package or sport package like other guys said.

BobC

A stock F-Body suspension and tires are not designed for high speed curves, its better suited to drag race launching, where a BMW Sport or M package will be optimized for high speed turns like you'd find on the Autobahn. The cheapest bang for the buck way to improve your speed in the turns is with a set of road race tires. Next would be springs, shocks, swaybars and bushings. You'd lose the cushy ride but be able to negotiate the turns at a much higher speed. My T/A convertible can take the tollway cloverleaf turn near here at over 70 with those mods (on street tires).

JohnnieMo

I'd like to see where cars are pulling 1.6 G's. I'm assuming this is on a straight slick tire to start with, but still..... Factory cars are never much higher than 1.0. Show me a link or I call

roy

Mitch you are probably one of the exceptions to the rule here. Here are a few more vids of European engineered cars here. Roy's Gallery

Fbody's can be set up to handle well with a few select mods . Couple that with some good driving and it is a hard pack age to beat.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

What it comes down to, is most sports cars with independant rear suspension and light weight will handle better than a stock fbody that is heavy and has a live axle. It doesn't have to be a German or European engineered car; it could be a Corvette (American,) Ferrari (Italian,) Lotus (British) etc. The fact is, an fbody provides a great bang to buck ratio, and plenty of upgrade parts are available. You can modify an LS1 Camaro to handle as good as (or maybe better than) a stock Z06 Vette, or BMW M3. But to do it, you will wind up with a car that has a more harsh ride than the expensive IRS cars, and the interior will look gutted because you need to remove about 300 lbs of weight from the car. But if you want to build a race car, an fbody is one of the cheaper starting points available.

Back to the original question though, the driver will still make a bigger diffrence than the car, so the first mod should be a driving school.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Roy, I know ... and I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'm the Schumacher's long lost brother.

I've had my *** handed to me many times by BMW and Porsche powered cars.

But like you said, don't be too quick to write this platform off. These cars are a handful and the German cars are easier to drive. It takes a sack to bail off into a corner, determined to hang with a 993 or 996 ...

z28C4maro82z

iTrader: (33)

That was a good explaination.... I learned something new

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

I was jacking the numbers to make a point, be it a stupid point.
A Formula 1 pulls 1.5 so you do the math.
(just my anger talking when I think about GM's half *** suspension engineering) If they had any brains they would see 4wd is the only way to go these days. Have you seen the clip of the wrx smoking the lambo yet?

Its said that our cars pull .89 stock but I've done .96 (well e-teck .96)with -1" stock suspension and stock bald tires. I would think if they say .98 for a new vett, I could pull at least 1.1 with it.

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

Somewhere I have a card from a guy I met in Datona that makes IRS's with all ford 9" goodies.

They were big bucks as I remember, like 4gs.

I saw another co. with them, cant remember if it was 9" suff but they wanted 5g's. I saw it the other day on the web. I'll find it again and post the co. I'd love a bullit proof IRS.

I just blew my 10 bolt and was looking into a regular 9". I put one in my 71 and love it. I also have 3 center sections with diff. ratio's

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/pricelist.php?ID=3

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

I was jacking the numbers to make a point, be it a stupid point.
A Formula 1 pulls 1.5 so you do the math.



Correction an modern F1 car pulls 3 g's.

need-a-z

I hate to say it but he would eat the Camaro in the corners without any issues. Especially if he knows how to drive. The M series can stick with the IRS and they are made to handle.

OdessitPashka

iTrader: (8)

you need to read the whole thing man. It's not an M car, it's 528i with sports package.

Jon A

And yet the F-Body, with a relatively stock suspension, has been more than a match for the M3 in recent years in SCCA T2 (even with a restrictor on the LS1!):

http://ww2.scca.com/clubresults.php?ID=199

http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/t2finalrace.pdf

Etc...

Funny how things are different at the track than the magazine-racing world would lead you to believe.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I think you're probably still low.

I interviewed for a job with a CART team several years ago (not F1) and was advised that they were seeing bursts of 5 G's at some tracks (Corkscrew at Laguna Seca). I suspect that F1 is doing about the same. I don't know what they are doing "steady state", but I'd bet that it's over 3 g's.

JohnnieMo

The thing about F-1 cars is they pull more G's the faster they go due to downforce. I think I heard the stat that at 60MPH they can drive upside down. (equivalent to 1G)

need-a-z

That will make a huge difference. I misunderstood it. M3, M5, and M6 are bad a$$. But a simple 5 series with sport package may not be able to hold up to the f-body.

I have guys where I work bust my a$$ that the little pea shooter is better than the f-body. He drives a MR-2. Is that a little girls car?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You should take the time to go through those links jon posted ...

T2 has some of the best drivers in the world behind the wheel of BOTH platforms. A package that hasn't had ANY updates for 4 years can STILL hold it's own against the most refined of automobiles.

300bhp/ton

Remember bald or part worn tyres have a greater surface contact area and less tread roll, so you should see better times/g's over new road tyres.

As for measuring g's it depends. On how, a Skyline has a g meter and if you fling it hard enough at speed into a powerslide it will clock over 1.1g, however if you where driving around a 50foot circle until grip was lost I doubt it would make the same number.

Driver is certainly the biggest factor here. An example would be Top Gear. An Damon Hill drove a 100bhp Susuki saloon round the track quicker than 'average Jo' could probably hussle a Porshce 911 around there.

Also they went to the Nurburgring in Germany, where a very attractive German lady drove a diesel Ford Transit van round the track quicker than a lot of superbikes/cars make it round the 13+miles.

On equal footing on a sprint, road course or circiut with equal drivers a 528 wouldn't stand a chance. It may be slightly better on the breaks and exiting the corners but it doesn't have the straight line speed.

As people have said, the live rear is the limiting factor. On smooth surfaces (read race track) they are fine. But will never beable to react like IRS to uneven sufaces, plus the refinment for a road car with a live rear will always be worse by a considerable margin.

Weight is usually the biggest killer, if you could shave 600kg (1200+lb) off of the Fbody it would make one hell of a difference.

For this reason a 190bhp Lotus Exige and lap slightly faster than a 400bhp Corvette C6.