Well, I spent a good year rebuilding my camaro to make a stable platform to learn how to drive in. So, here is the rundown of how things can go wrong.

I attended my first NASASE event at CMP this weekend, as can be seen from the time stamp, the weekend is still going on yet I am back home in Savannah, GA.

I arrive at CMP and immediatly meet some really cool people that take me under their wing and show me around. The first thing I notice is how well planned and run the event is. Congrats to NASA because it was the only thing that went well for me. And it is the only thing that will bring me back.(pissed at my car right now)

Sat morning, I meet with my instuctor who comes off very proffesional and friendly. I automatically have confidence in his abilities to guide me the right way. The classroom session begins exactly on time and again, the instuctor comes off proffesional and knowledgable. (I am thinking at this time how much fun this learning experience is going to be.

After the classroom, the instructer and I go to my car and discuss the setup that I am running, talk about my experience (none) and prep ourselves for the first track session.

Lap one, going good...the car that is, my driving sucks....
Lap two, car temp reaches 220, I smell coolant
Lap 2.5, car temp reaches 240, I tell the instructor "we have a car problem" as soon as I finish the sentence, we spin out, get corrected and continue down the track.

Lap 2.7, car temp is at max 265+ and we get meatball flagged to pull over. Car is overheated.

After looking at my hoses, (nothing wrong) The entire track is shut down because I still had some antifreeze in the car(which was now on the track) The tow truck arrives within seconds and we are taken to the paddock

I let the car cool down, re fill it with water and turn on the ignition, fans are working.

I pull the radiator cap and look inside with engine running, water is pumping.

I pull the thermostat cover and BAM! Thermostat is broken. A quick trip to NAPA solves this and I make the next classroom session. Though I miss the next track session. After installing the new thermo, I start the car and it goes right up to 240 within 1 minute. WTF!!!! So I pull the thermo, re fill it and start it again. 15min later, at idle the car is at 170. Perfect. I then drive it (HARD) to the local town to wash off all the antifreeze. Car stays at 170-175. Same thing on the way back.

So, ready for the next track session.....1 lap into it temp is at 175, 2nd lap 190, third, bumping off 220, stays between
220-240.....overheats on the last lap. Hands up in the air and I dont know. Went home to fix my car.
Lessons.1. Whatever you expect to break...wont. What you expect to be good..breaks. 2. If you think you can drive...you cant. 3. "hitting the apex means actually hitting it." Till next time

 

Welcome to the world of "sorting". You will be chasing gremlins for a while. Don't get discouraged.

Cooling an F-Car can be a real "treat". They are bottom breathers and unless you can find a way to get the air out from under the hood, don't even consider making it a front breather.

I have extended the lower air dam using plastic garden edging I bought at Home Depot. I know it sounds crazy, but I have the lower air dam right on the deck in order to direct as much air as possible up through the radiator and create a huge low pressure zone behind the dam to get the air out of the engine compartment.

The low pressure zone is the reason why a front breather won't work. Air flows under the car about as fast as the air does over the car. Air going in the front gets trapped inside the engine compartment. Air extractors on the hood will fix the problem, but I can't create holes in my hood unless they are factory ones.

If it goes underneath, it will have to literally lift the car in order to pack more air under the car.

Make sense?

Also, do you have the cowl at the base of the windshield along with the hood seal? Essential for cooling.

Are you using the stock fan and shroud? The shroud might be blocking air. Look at an aftermarket fan that attaches directly to the back side of the fan. I have mine switched on a toggle switch so that it stays on at 100% all the time.

Also, what is you oil temps? While oil is THE lubrication medium, it can also aid in cooling ... likewise it can hinder cooling, if it gets really hot.

I would also take your radiator cap to a radiator shop and have it tested. I bought several radiator caps rated 18-20psi and would only hold at 12 psi.

Make sure the whole air tunnel, from the opening under the car up and throgh the radiator is sealed really well. I removed all that plastic crap that creates the tunnel and made a new tunnel out of a sheet of aluminum.

Finally, you made no friends sliming the track with coolant. Always use 100% distilled water. The guys sitting in hot car on grid while the track cleaned up the mess were not your best friends.

What class are you running in? I realize you are currently in HPDE/Race Craft, but are you headed for CMC or AI?

 

Hello mitchntx, well, I didnt want to post all the tech things that I had found during the last post because of how long it would be, that was the shortened version. Anyway, the pressure zone, I found that when I had put on the new front end, I never bent the bottom of the bumper up towards the radiator...def a problem. I looked at the only other 4th gen at the track and measured the angle that I must bend mine to. Unfortunatly, the car overheats before I begin moving now. (it will run at 165 for about 15min at idle, then water boils out of the recovery tank and the temp goes up, runs itself dry then overheats.) I am now working on an aluminum housing as you mentioned.
The base of the windsheild has the full cowl and seal, I am however running a harwood cowl induction hood that does not have the cowl cut out. If that matters.
I am running the stock fans with the hypertech programmer turning them on at 180.
I dont know what my oil temps are but all the vette guys recomended an oil cooler.
The cap seemed new though we swapped out the one from my truck (16psi) and had the same problem. I will have to get it tested.
As for the guys that had to wait, they were other HPDE1 students and I offered to buy all the beer My car was the butt of a few jokes but they were cool. The rules here say HPDE 1/2 cars can run antifreeze, however, the track director said thats because most are stock and dont overheat. My car is Far far far from stock....way beyond my abilities yet. Anyway, after the first incedent, I swapped out all the coolant and will never run antifreeze in this car again.( car is 95% track car, 5% take to the beach,fun,grudge,showoff car.),,,,,I am hoping to get involved in AI after I learn to drive. Too many damn mustangs wrecking shop out here, too few F bodys.. Well, I am not ruling out the water pump as of now, when the car overheated the first time, assuming that it was because of the air shroud, it may have weakend the water pump, though there is water pumping everywhere when it overflows, goes with the rythem of the water pump...I am at a loss, has no symptoms of a head gasket, am pulling the plugs soon to look. I have until SEP 29 before I will be running at Roebling Road to figure this out, havent torn into it yet, tired from driving all night.

 

Sounds like you are on the right track.

American Iron, huh? I really do like CMC just because AI is too wallet driven. I assume you are in an LS1 based car ....

How new are the radiator hoses? Do youstill have the AC condenser in front of the radiator?

 

LS1......no no no, old school LT1. AI seems attainable due to the P/W ratio. 350-370RWHP from an LT1 is completely doable.My car is so far out of the specs for CMC that it would cost me less to buy a new camaro than to convert mine back to stock.The only part of the car not touched yet is the longblock. My hoses are new and as of now I still have the condenser as I still have A/C. (I wont remove all of that until I am done with HPDE and have a C License.) At that point I'll get another car to drive around in. I am going to thouroghly troubleshoot tommorow. Funny thing about the entire weekend.......the only champion was my 1988 Chevy C1500. As always, she brings me and my broken racecars home.

 

Keep in mind a couple things ...

With the increased HP makes reliability decrease and costs increase. BUt I do feel your pain on teh "too far gone" realization ...

Also, weight is the enemy. At 370 RWHP, your minumum weight will be over 3500 lbs!!!
You'd be better at 320 and get your weight down to 3100 or so. Your tires and brakes will love you.

Also, realize that the minimum weight is as you come off the track. At those HP levels, you will have to start the race with 3 or 4 more gallons of fuel ... that is an immediate 30lb disadvantage when the green flag drops.

I've gotten a CMC car down below 2800 w/o a driver, windshield or fuel.

Finally, all that power sounds really cool. But look at the tracks where you compete. Will you be able to take advantage of all that power? At the end of the longest straight you just want your shift light to flicker in 4th gear to get the maximum out of your gearing.

Keep us updated with what you find on the cooling issue.

Also, you might find some good info at www.frrax.com

 

Like Mitch said. I have mine down in the 2900 lb range now, and wow, my brakes and tires are lasting A LOT longer than they ever did in the past!

Frrax is awesome as well!

 

wow, 2900lbs..... guess I need to get my car weighed. Already stripped interior, bumper supports and padding, tubed arms and K, aluminum drivshaft, fedenza flywheel and lightened clutch,lighter brakes, lighter seats,lite wheels. .......wonder where I am...i see a 4 wheel scale in the near future....anyway, update, I picked up a hypertech 160 thermostat( only one at the track that was avail was a napa 180) and ordered the new rad cap, I went with an actual GM cap from the dealer hoping for better quality, it will be in tom morning. I will try them one at a time to see what it is, the pump is pumping fine, tested it today, I also came across a factory optioned oil cooler with full oil filter hook up for free(my supporting speed shop is wonderful) that will be replacing my condenser. Guess I am taking the step and removing emissions and A/C. People on ebay will love the parts......Mitchntx, I am having issues making a box for my radiator inlet, what did you do? Also, someone shot me an idea to help cool the car...when I get the radiator inlet airbox completed, I was told to cut out the cowl (facing the windsheild) of my 2.5" cowl hood to allow hot air to escape....we drew up a diagram and in principle, it looks like it could work.....is this true?

 

Yeah 2900 lbs ... but, Dennis is a scrawny guy who, I think, throws up after every meal.

Cutting the cowl ... air is tricky. Who would ever think that air would flow INTO the engine compartment in front of the windshield when the cowl and or hood seal is removed.

I have ZERO experience in a wind tunnel. However, when I study cars that I KNOW have wind tunnel time and see extractors recessed into the hood and then louvered, all at or in front of the front wheels, it makes me think that might be a better solution.

I'm not discounting what you've been told. It very well could work. But every cowl hood I've ever seen is an INDUCTION, not an EXTRACTION.

Just my observations based upon zero experience.

I wound up with a GM replacement cap.

The LT1 factory oil cooler? I wouldn't bother. It's coolant based, so you are cooling 300* oil with 200* coolant. The base (cooling element) is extremely small with almost zero capacity for either coolant or oil to cool. Very little heat transfer takes place.

I have a Canton sandwich adaptor and have run -10 lines to a 8x10 Setrab oil cooler where the battery used to be. It has it's own fan and I've ducted fresh air from one of the TA's fascia fog light holes.

For the air box, I used a sheet of thin aluminum, bent the sides to go through the core support and sit against the radiator. I bent the bottom forward and sandwiched it between the inner bumper support and lower fascia.

I then sealed all the seams with aluminum HVAC tape.

 

the idea was to draw air in through the factory bottom feeding point,through the rad , then let it out at the cowl by the windshield...wish I could draw on here. The oil cooler seems to mount in front of the radiator like the B&m trans cooler on my truck. I didnt see where coolant went into it, guess I'll look closer. Ah, aluminum sheet, I have no bumper support or anything for that matter within the nose of my car, I guess I will just make it look like an upside down scoop within the nose to feed the rad.....

 

well now, engine is toast....head gsket went, cylinder walls look scorched. Exhaust in all my cooling passages.Engine failed L/D test in 4 cylinders. Low compression in 4 cylinders. Time to build an engine. Problem......looking at the rules for AI, with the guestimated weight of my car, I am limited to 315HP at the wheels. Is this for real? I dont know if it is possible to de tune a 385 to that low output. Guess a basically stock rebuild is in order? Where do I find out what people are running in these classes? Given the level of mods AI allows, it just seems funny that an LS1 makes the max power allowed.

 

Sad news about the motor. Heat is a bad, bad thing ....

Last year, a bone stock LS2 was leading the way in Texas AI. He had great shocks and ground effects, though.

Every racer at an event is suposed to declare their dyno graphs and weight. It's common knowledge.

Contact the regional directors for AI in your area. They should be able to help.

Remember, it's all about the weight. Everything you throw under the hood to make power has to stop and turn at some point. Big power means you will have to start braking sooner. Momentum is your friend.

I learned more about driving a car in a Mazda 6 than I ever did behind 300+ horses. When Miatas can turn similar lap times to a 300 horse car, that should be example enough.

 

I see, habits from drag racing 15 years die hard....plus side to this is that building a bulletproof 350HP at the crank engine costs alot less than I thought. I agree with the mazda 6 idea, even though my car is set up nicely, the girls 86 RX-7 makes the camaro feel like a tank.Talked to eagle this morning, they rate their cast crank and i beam rods to 7000rpm, hell might be able to re do the stock parts. True on the weight issue, friend of mine is an instructer down in FL, drives a GTO, cracked aftermarket 13" rotors slowing that brick down.

 

Just to let you know you aren't alone, last year my car had ~375RWHP, and I went to a track event with it. I could only go 1 lap at 100% before my car started to overheat on the stock radiator. Now I have a becool, and I'm going to try to make it to some more track events.