Racing Schools
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
I can't say enough about Skip Barber. They took me from knowing nothing to having a solid fundamental about lapping on a road course and racing in 5 days. After the 3 day course you're eligible for the SCCA Regional license to boot. Only drawback is the cost.
Originally Posted by Crisisman
There's many to choose from. Usually at least one in any given metro area. Where are you located?
The location of the school is no problem for me
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by Ari G
What is the 5day corse much?
Day 1: Intense series of slalom, braking & downshifting exercises with special attention on double-clutch/heel-and-toe downshifting
Day 2: Series of high-speed lapping sessions combined with racing theory & advanced braking techniques
Day 3: Track drills in drafting, passing & racing in the rain; double-file race starts & single-file restarts
Day 2: Series of high-speed lapping sessions combined with racing theory & advanced braking techniques
Day 3: Track drills in drafting, passing & racing in the rain; double-file race starts & single-file restarts
^ see link for schools and pricing.
***Repost Police***
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,480
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From: DFW, TX
At Motorsport Ranch (southwest of Dallas/Fort Worth) they hold performance driving classes. I'm not sure of the details, but definitely look into it, since it's relatively-close to where you will be living. If you don't mind travelling, check out Skip Barber and Bondurant as well.
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I instruct on occasion with Apex Driving Academy located at Motorsports Ranch. It's decent enough.
The difference between Barber and Apex is that Barber supplies the car while Apex instruct you in your car. Each venue has it's pros and cons
With Barber, the car is basically taken out of the equation for the instructor. He knows the car's history and preperation and limits. It's the driver that has to adapt.
With Apex, the instructor sometimes doesn't really know the level of prep and skill the maintenance "crew" applied to the car. So, as an instructor, I have to err on the conservative side to keep people and car safe.
The difference between Barber and Apex is that Barber supplies the car while Apex instruct you in your car. Each venue has it's pros and cons
With Barber, the car is basically taken out of the equation for the instructor. He knows the car's history and preperation and limits. It's the driver that has to adapt.
With Apex, the instructor sometimes doesn't really know the level of prep and skill the maintenance "crew" applied to the car. So, as an instructor, I have to err on the conservative side to keep people and car safe.
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Verdad Gallardo !LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I instruct on occasion with Apex Driving Academy located at Motorsports Ranch. It's decent enough.
The difference between Barber and Apex is that Barber supplies the car while Apex instruct you in your car. Each venue has it's pros and cons
With Barber, the car is basically taken out of the equation for the instructor. He knows the car's history and preperation and limits. It's the driver that has to adapt.
With Apex, the instructor sometimes doesn't really know the level of prep and skill the maintenance "crew" applied to the car. So, as an instructor, I have to err on the conservative side to keep people and car safe.
The difference between Barber and Apex is that Barber supplies the car while Apex instruct you in your car. Each venue has it's pros and cons
With Barber, the car is basically taken out of the equation for the instructor. He knows the car's history and preperation and limits. It's the driver that has to adapt.
With Apex, the instructor sometimes doesn't really know the level of prep and skill the maintenance "crew" applied to the car. So, as an instructor, I have to err on the conservative side to keep people and car safe.
With all due respect to your instructional ability and driving prowess, another difference is that at Barber, you're also getting taught by a rather impressive resume of champions - for whatever that's worth (you're also paying out the *** for it).
For example, when I was there, for instructors I had a 24hr Daytona/12hr Sebring Champion, a former Formula 3000 driver and instructor at Brands Hatch, a Drag Racing Hall of fame inductee turned road racer and current Rolex series GT class drivers instructing (just to name a few), plus a former ROLEX DP series champ's sons were in attendance recieving instruction. Hey, it's simply wow factor for an average joe like me.
This all may or may not make for better quality instruction, but the racing legacy on a world class level is definately there (again, at the expense of your wallet).
I've also enjoyed the small informal schools (more like classroom sessions) offered at NASA and Chinmotorsports as well during their classroom sessions for novices given between lapping sessions. Everyone can benefit from any sort of properly given instruction. Some things simply are not intuitive and need to be taught.
Last edited by SouthFL.02.SS; Apr 30, 2007 at 10:27 AM.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
but on the other hand, the several thousand dollars you are going to save by only doing "local" events with "non-professional" instruction will get you 10x the seat time
and there is no replacement for seat time.
just stirring the pot
and there is no replacement for seat time.
just stirring the pot
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
Mitch.
With all due respect to your instructional ability and driving prowess, another difference is that at Barber, you're also getting taught by a rather impressive resume of champions - for whatever that's worth (you're also paying out the *** for it).
For example, when I was there, for instructors I had a 24hr Daytona/12hr Sebring Champion, a former Formula 3000 driver and instructor at Brands Hatch, a Drag Racing Hall of fame inductee turned road racer and current Rolex series GT class drivers instructing (just to name a few), plus a former ROLEX DP series champ's sons were in attendance recieving instruction. Hey, it's simply wow factor for an average joe like me.
This all may or may not make for better quality instruction, but the racing legacy on a world class level is definately there (again, at the expense of your wallet).
I've also enjoyed the small informal schools (more like classroom sessions) offered at NASA and Chinmotorsports as well during their classroom sessions for novices given between lapping sessions. Everyone can benefit from any sort of properly given instruction. Some things simply are not intuitive and need to be taught.
With all due respect to your instructional ability and driving prowess, another difference is that at Barber, you're also getting taught by a rather impressive resume of champions - for whatever that's worth (you're also paying out the *** for it).
For example, when I was there, for instructors I had a 24hr Daytona/12hr Sebring Champion, a former Formula 3000 driver and instructor at Brands Hatch, a Drag Racing Hall of fame inductee turned road racer and current Rolex series GT class drivers instructing (just to name a few), plus a former ROLEX DP series champ's sons were in attendance recieving instruction. Hey, it's simply wow factor for an average joe like me.
This all may or may not make for better quality instruction, but the racing legacy on a world class level is definately there (again, at the expense of your wallet).
I've also enjoyed the small informal schools (more like classroom sessions) offered at NASA and Chinmotorsports as well during their classroom sessions for novices given between lapping sessions. Everyone can benefit from any sort of properly given instruction. Some things simply are not intuitive and need to be taught.
Excellent points and I can appreciate the pedigree that schools like Barber have. It's impressive to have that kind of experience in the right seat. Many times, though ... it's marketing.
For me, more importantly, is can that person, who has such an impressive resume, impart his experience to a green student in such a way that the student actually learns something?
Ron Fellows is an *** ... Boris Said is very approachable. Lou Gigliotti is tough ... Tommy Archer is a ******. It's hit or miss.
Another thing I've learned is that the difference in driving talent available at local schools vs the big names is typically only separated by the thickness of someone's check book.
I showed Tommy Nastasi around Motorsports Ranch one day. While he currently leads the points in Grand AM cup (Koni Challenge), he didn't impress me very much as a driver that day.
I have learned more about "racing" from Mike Patterson and Steve Hill than anyone else. What they taught me was that a good handling car is but a small part of "the race".
When you go wheel to wheel racing, you begin to see just how small this community really is.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by Kamin
but on the other hand, the several thousand dollars you are going to save by only doing "local" events with "non-professional" instruction will get you 10x the seat time
and there is no replacement for seat time.
just stirring the pot
and there is no replacement for seat time.
just stirring the pot
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Excellent points and I can appreciate the pedigree that schools like Barber have. It's impressive to have that kind of experience in the right seat. Many times, though ... it's marketing.
For me, more importantly, is can that person, who has such an impressive resume, impart his experience to a green student in such a way that the student actually learns something?
Ron Fellows is an *** ... Boris Said is very approachable. Lou Gigliotti is tough ... Tommy Archer is a ******. It's hit or miss.
Another thing I've learned is that the difference in driving talent available at local schools vs the big names is typically only separated by the thickness of someone's check book.
I showed Tommy Nastasi around Motorsports Ranch one day. While he currently leads the points in Grand AM cup (Koni Challenge), he didn't impress me very much as a driver that day.
I have learned more about "racing" from Mike Patterson and Steve Hill than anyone else. What they taught me was that a good handling car is but a small part of "the race".
When you go wheel to wheel racing, you begin to see just how small this community really is.
For me, more importantly, is can that person, who has such an impressive resume, impart his experience to a green student in such a way that the student actually learns something?
Ron Fellows is an *** ... Boris Said is very approachable. Lou Gigliotti is tough ... Tommy Archer is a ******. It's hit or miss.
Another thing I've learned is that the difference in driving talent available at local schools vs the big names is typically only separated by the thickness of someone's check book.
I showed Tommy Nastasi around Motorsports Ranch one day. While he currently leads the points in Grand AM cup (Koni Challenge), he didn't impress me very much as a driver that day.
I have learned more about "racing" from Mike Patterson and Steve Hill than anyone else. What they taught me was that a good handling car is but a small part of "the race".
When you go wheel to wheel racing, you begin to see just how small this community really is.
What I've seen by sitting with other Skip grads in their cars on track at different venues is that we're all more or less the same- some much quicker than others, but all very similar in method. This could be very boring, but then again, the way I look at it is that we were all taught a basic fundamental structure through a proven curriculum which (as factory like as it is) spits out people who know how to lap and race successfully on a road course- given zero background knowledge- within a few days. I'm sure your instruction and school can do the same, but not as many people would know about it as people know about Skip and Bondurant and Roos and Panoz, etc. etc. etc. either due to regionality of the school or simply because it's an upstart pace= who knows- that's all business.
Anyhow, any instruction from a good, sound fundamental base will take people to the next level very quickly. It's absolutely amazing.
Last edited by SouthFL.02.SS; Apr 30, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
My dad races with Driver's edge...I dont know if its a school but I know that they teach you how to drive fast in corners and ****....they run like every couple of weeks mostly at dallas/fort worth race way and in college station and in houston. Give me a Pm if you need any more info
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 1
From: MA
I am an instructor with www.comscc.com. I agree with everything said, but,
I would recommend a few schools with a club like comscc, bmw club, etc before I spent the big bucks on Skip Barber.
COM runs NHIS, Watkin Glen, Lime Rock, Mosport, and MT Tremblant this season. The premier road courses in the Northeast USA. Check it out if you can travel.
I would recommend a few schools with a club like comscc, bmw club, etc before I spent the big bucks on Skip Barber.
COM runs NHIS, Watkin Glen, Lime Rock, Mosport, and MT Tremblant this season. The premier road courses in the Northeast USA. Check it out if you can travel.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Arizona.
I got an afternoon at Bondurant for a B-Day present. I knew that I knew nothing. But I had no idea how much nothing I knew. I agree tremendously with the seat-time comment. I could feel and watch myself getting faster and faster. Its was actually pretty frustrating becuase I ran out of time while still improving so much. And that was in a large group and very mild exercises.
Now I have a whole new set of priorities for my car. Great. Just freakin great. Thats another years' disposable income gone.
Now I have a whole new set of priorities for my car. Great. Just freakin great. Thats another years' disposable income gone.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by Sparetire
I got an afternoon at Bondurant for a B-Day present. I knew that I knew nothing. But I had no idea how much nothing I knew. I agree tremendously with the seat-time comment. I could feel and watch myself getting faster and faster. Its was actually pretty frustrating becuase I ran out of time while still improving so much. And that was in a large group and very mild exercises.
Now I have a whole new set of priorities for my car. Great. Just freakin great. Thats another years' disposable income gone.
Now I have a whole new set of priorities for my car. Great. Just freakin great. Thats another years' disposable income gone.
Going to a turnkey track ready car made things really easy. I miss the hp however. Everyone says that you don't need hp to enjoy the roadcourse -which is true, but damn I miss it. Hp used right equals traction
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
It's addictive. I need a lapping day fix once every 6 to 8 weeks minimum.
Going to a turnkey track ready car made things really easy. I miss the hp however. Everyone says that you don't need hp to enjoy the roadcourse -which is true, but damn I miss it. Hp used right equals traction
Going to a turnkey track ready car made things really easy. I miss the hp however. Everyone says that you don't need hp to enjoy the roadcourse -which is true, but damn I miss it. Hp used right equals traction
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
I can't say enough about Skip Barber. They took me from knowing nothing to having a solid fundamental about lapping on a road course and racing in 5 days. After the 3 day course you're eligible for the SCCA Regional license to boot. Only drawback is the cost.
