dry sump or accusump?
Easy, put a dry sump on it. And especially you with the RPM that your pulling for extended periods of time. Stock pumps cant take that kind of beating. Accusump is a pre oiler and a safety net if you loose pressure.
In a dry sump chances of loosing pressure are very slim unless the dry sump pump takes a crap on you (they do this but VERY rarely). The amount of oil you carry in a dry sump will give you enough time to shut it down before the motor grenades completely on you.
Open accusump until pressure is gone
close accusump
Fire motor and let idle for a second
SLOWLY open accusump until desired pressure is reached
Close accusump
Race car
Turn off car
Rinse and repeat
In the event of oil pressure loss (i.e. ZERO pressure), throw the handle open and shut down car immediately
i think im probably going to get this moroso accusump system from lingenfelter for 200 bux anyways , and use it for starting the car either way. i think this'd be nice to hook up, but i'd like to figure out a way to open/close the valve from inside the car. be nice to have it near my switchpanel so its more routine.
OR run a line from the accusump to the inside of the car with a valve and from the valve to the motor. This is how we have it set up on our 200+mph ORR car.
Open accusump until pressure is gone
close accusump
Fire motor and let idle for a second
SLOWLY open accusump until desired pressure is reached
Close accusump
Race car
Turn off car
Rinse and repeat
In the event of oil pressure loss (i.e. ZERO pressure), throw the handle open and shut down car immediately
close accusump
Fire motor and let idle for a second
SLOWLY open accusump until desired pressure is reached
Close accusump
Race car
Turn off car
Rinse and repeat
In the event of oil pressure loss (i.e. ZERO pressure), throw the handle open and shut down car immediately
The electronic valves are actually just so that you don't have to close the valve after you turn the car off to keep the accusump pressurized for the next start up.
A regular accusump does not require you to do anything when the pressure drops. The canister is a lot like a vacuum tank for brakes. When you need the extra pressure, it's there. You don't have to open the valve, you just leave it open when you're driving, and close it right before you shut down the engine if you're going to want to prelube on your next start up.
We just completed the 25 Hours of Thunderhill with just an Accusump on our 2001 Camaro LS1 engine. The engine had about 27 track/race hours before the race without an accusump, then the 25 Hours of Thunderhill race. The oil pressure didn't drop during the race as it had previously without it, and the engine ran beautifully for the entire race.
I can't talk on the dry sump needs, as I don't have experience with it, but so far so good for the accusump on a full-out road race car.
Good luck,
Steve
I can't talk on the dry sump needs, as I don't have experience with it, but so far so good for the accusump on a full-out road race car.
Good luck,
Steve
This year for the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, we had been able to sort the car more, swap from the Camaro LS1 to a Corvette LS1 with Lingenfelter heads and mild cam (gaining about 100hp). We got our lap times down 6 seconds from last year and guess what...
12 hours into the race and looking very fast and strong, the engine threw a rod. When I looked at the data, it turns out that the oil pressure was dipping at the end of two of the turns. Apparently our accusump plumbing could be improved, however we are researching going dry sump now, as it's more expensive to buy/swap a new engine than it is to install a dry sump.
Good luck to all!
Steve
2008 Follow-up:
This year for the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, we had been able to sort the car more, swap from the Camaro LS1 to a Corvette LS1 with Lingenfelter heads and mild cam (gaining about 100hp). We got our lap times down 6 seconds from last year and guess what...
12 hours into the race and looking very fast and strong, the engine threw a rod. When I looked at the data, it turns out that the oil pressure was dipping at the end of two of the turns. Apparently our accusump plumbing could be improved, however we are researching going dry sump now, as it's more expensive to buy/swap a new engine than it is to install a dry sump.
Good luck to all!
Steve
This year for the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, we had been able to sort the car more, swap from the Camaro LS1 to a Corvette LS1 with Lingenfelter heads and mild cam (gaining about 100hp). We got our lap times down 6 seconds from last year and guess what...
12 hours into the race and looking very fast and strong, the engine threw a rod. When I looked at the data, it turns out that the oil pressure was dipping at the end of two of the turns. Apparently our accusump plumbing could be improved, however we are researching going dry sump now, as it's more expensive to buy/swap a new engine than it is to install a dry sump.
Good luck to all!
Steve
Steve,
I've got a 3 quart accusump on my SBC in a 3rd gen and I am also seeing pressure dips while autocrossing on street tires (real street tires, not race compounds). I have an autometer low oil pressure light on the car that kicks on when oil pressure dips below 30 psi and I see it far more often than I'd like to. Considering my accusump is charged to 60-80 psi, I was surprised that I couldn't hold the oil pressure above 30 psi with the 3 quart sump.
You might install an oil pressure warning light (Pro-lite) and a 15 or 30 psi switch. I think you'll be surprised at what you see (which is the light blinking pretty often).
Yes, we actually do have a light and we weren't too comfortable seeing it go off as much as it did. However, what was more challenging for us was that at the beginning of the race, it would barely go on, but then later it would stay on longer. At that point, we are committed to the race and just have to keep on going, unless the pressure were to drop and stay down, when we'd shut it down.
So dry sump is the way we will go. Our challenge now is fitment, due to our crossmember which calls for us to use a custom pan now (renegade hybrids conversion pan). Since it looks like all the existing dry sump pans won't clear our power steering rack on one side (just off by about a 3/8" or so), we will need to either modify those pans or convert our existing pan to a dry sump.
Has anyone converted their existing LSx pan to a dry sump by adding the scavenge pick-ups and rest of the dry sump system (pump, tank etc.)?
Thanks,
Steve
So dry sump is the way we will go. Our challenge now is fitment, due to our crossmember which calls for us to use a custom pan now (renegade hybrids conversion pan). Since it looks like all the existing dry sump pans won't clear our power steering rack on one side (just off by about a 3/8" or so), we will need to either modify those pans or convert our existing pan to a dry sump.
Has anyone converted their existing LSx pan to a dry sump by adding the scavenge pick-ups and rest of the dry sump system (pump, tank etc.)?
Thanks,
Steve
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During the 12 hours the engine lasted was the oil level checked? Was it consuming oil like some LS1's?
Did the trouble start with the g's the vette was capable of and the camaro wasn't?
What do you think is wrong with the accusump plumbing?
I run a LS1 in CMC2 with an accusump but the line wraps all the way around the front of the engine and through the passenger side firewall where the sump sits in the floorboard. I am aware that the fittings and sizes you use can have a big impact but I don't know what is optimum.
Sorry to hear about the engine.
Did the trouble start with the g's the vette was capable of and the camaro wasn't?
What do you think is wrong with the accusump plumbing?
I run a LS1 in CMC2 with an accusump but the line wraps all the way around the front of the engine and through the passenger side firewall where the sump sits in the floorboard. I am aware that the fittings and sizes you use can have a big impact but I don't know what is optimum.
Sorry to hear about the engine.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
why dry sump? Porsche seems to be really testing their oiling system to the extreme. Dry sump is the only way to go if your really pushing the car like the drift 240 above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuleS9rnzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuleS9rnzc
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Cameron
An accusump with a pre-charge of 60psi would require the oil pressure to exceed 60psi to even BEGIN to charge the accusump. An accusump must have a pre-charge pressure significantly LESS than the pressure your oiling system typically makes, otherwise it will never charge up with oil and essentially be useless. A pre-charge of 20-25psi is more reasonable for a car that makes 60psi oil pressure at speed, so when the pressures are equalized within the accusump at 60spi it will be charged with a couple quarts of oil, ready to discharge when the pressure drops.
I connected mine to a connector just above the oil filter that is intended for an oil cooler it has two bolts on it. you can purchase a premade fitting from Lou Gilotti or take the one off your motor and have an aluminum welder open it up and weld an an fitting on it. Mine works great.
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
I connected mine to a connector just above the oil filter that is intended for an oil cooler it has two bolts on it. you can purchase a premade fitting from Lou Gilotti or take the one off your motor and have an aluminum welder open it up and weld an an fitting on it. Mine works great.
Jeff
During the 12 hours the engine lasted was the oil level checked? Was it consuming oil like some LS1's?
Did the trouble start with the g's the vette was capable of and the camaro wasn't?
What do you think is wrong with the accusump plumbing?
I run a LS1 in CMC2 with an accusump but the line wraps all the way around the front of the engine and through the passenger side firewall where the sump sits in the floorboard. I am aware that the fittings and sizes you use can have a big impact but I don't know what is optimum.
Sorry to hear about the engine.
Did the trouble start with the g's the vette was capable of and the camaro wasn't?
What do you think is wrong with the accusump plumbing?
I run a LS1 in CMC2 with an accusump but the line wraps all the way around the front of the engine and through the passenger side firewall where the sump sits in the floorboard. I am aware that the fittings and sizes you use can have a big impact but I don't know what is optimum.
Sorry to hear about the engine.
Yes, it was consuming oil, and we were having to put oil more toward the latter pitstops.
In our case, I think that the chassis development over the past year made for a big increase in G-loads, which I think put it beyond the accusump capacity. The Vette engine had more hp than the camaro engine, but I don't think it affected the G-loads too much, since that seems to be set by cornering capacity. Our times ended up 6 seconds a lap faster than the previous year at Thunderhill, which is a HUGE drop in time. The car felt so good in the corners, carving like it hadn't before.
Yes, Danny Popp was there and said that the accusump plumbing could have been better, more optimized. I'm sorry though that I don't remember the specifics, and still wonder if it would have been enough.
I learned my lesson though.
A dry sump system is expensive, but it's less expensive than a new motor! If you lose your motor just once due to oiling, then you would have been better investing in the dry sump.
It's that simple.
Cheers,
s
We ended up deciding to go with the ARE Ultra Shallow pan, as it will fit our application without modifications.
The engine was supposedly a 2002 Corvette engine I believe
s
2008 Follow-up:
This year for the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, we had been able to sort the car more, swap from the Camaro LS1 to a Corvette LS1 with Lingenfelter heads and mild cam (gaining about 100hp). We got our lap times down 6 seconds from last year and guess what...
12 hours into the race and looking very fast and strong, the engine threw a rod. When I looked at the data, it turns out that the oil pressure was dipping at the end of two of the turns. Apparently our accusump plumbing could be improved, however we are researching going dry sump now, as it's more expensive to buy/swap a new engine than it is to install a dry sump.
Good luck to all!
Steve
This year for the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, we had been able to sort the car more, swap from the Camaro LS1 to a Corvette LS1 with Lingenfelter heads and mild cam (gaining about 100hp). We got our lap times down 6 seconds from last year and guess what...
12 hours into the race and looking very fast and strong, the engine threw a rod. When I looked at the data, it turns out that the oil pressure was dipping at the end of two of the turns. Apparently our accusump plumbing could be improved, however we are researching going dry sump now, as it's more expensive to buy/swap a new engine than it is to install a dry sump.
Good luck to all!
Steve
Have you been out to Willow Springs with the car?