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Lq9 408- f1x combination need advice!
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Lq9 408- f1x combination need advice! Installed a forged 408 in my 2010 Camaro with a f1x. The problem I'm having is it not making the power as expected, my f1x is maxed out!
Car has A6 trans on 15lbs it made 750rwhp. So knowing this is an 8.5 to 1 compression motor I didn't think it was that bad.. Thinkin all I needed to do was turn up the boost and hit my goal of 1k rwhp. I did the math on my blower rpm speed with the current setup making 15lbs and was shocked to see 68,000 rpm @ 7k engine rpm! I contacted procharger to double check my math and I am correct. Yesterday I went ahead and put a 4.00in blower pulley (had a 4.25in pulley) on to fully max out the f1x. Maybe saw a 1/2lb of boost increase. Didn't even bother to dyno it again..
With that being said, where is all my boost going? Where is my hp?
-no boost leaks
-compression test is 129psi-130psi on all cylinders
-leak down test @ 7%
-motor only has 1100 miles.
-timing @ 21* at full boost
-iats are 10-20* above ambient
Engine setup.
-8.5-1 comp 408
-etp ls7 medium bore heads 64cc
-custom grind comp cam .610/.627 duration @.50 235/243 116 centerline.
-Jessel roller rockers 1.7 ratio
-Holley high ram efi intake
-kooks LT 1 7/8 headers Catless mids.
I have know idea of what to do at this point everything checks out the combo seems to be good. But there is a Deff problem! No way I should be maxing out the blower and making 750hp and only able to push 15lbs.. Any help or ideas would be appreciated..
Car has A6 trans on 15lbs it made 750rwhp. So knowing this is an 8.5 to 1 compression motor I didn't think it was that bad.. Thinkin all I needed to do was turn up the boost and hit my goal of 1k rwhp. I did the math on my blower rpm speed with the current setup making 15lbs and was shocked to see 68,000 rpm @ 7k engine rpm! I contacted procharger to double check my math and I am correct. Yesterday I went ahead and put a 4.00in blower pulley (had a 4.25in pulley) on to fully max out the f1x. Maybe saw a 1/2lb of boost increase. Didn't even bother to dyno it again..
With that being said, where is all my boost going? Where is my hp?
-no boost leaks
-compression test is 129psi-130psi on all cylinders
-leak down test @ 7%
-motor only has 1100 miles.
-timing @ 21* at full boost
-iats are 10-20* above ambient
Engine setup.
-8.5-1 comp 408
-etp ls7 medium bore heads 64cc
-custom grind comp cam .610/.627 duration @.50 235/243 116 centerline.
-Jessel roller rockers 1.7 ratio
-Holley high ram efi intake
-kooks LT 1 7/8 headers Catless mids.
I have know idea of what to do at this point everything checks out the combo seems to be good. But there is a Deff problem! No way I should be maxing out the blower and making 750hp and only able to push 15lbs.. Any help or ideas would be appreciated..
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There is something horribly wrong, that blower will lift the heads off the deck before it comes close to maxing it out.
That camshaft is all wrong though, it needs a lot more exhaust split. What is the LSA and ICL?
If it's 116 LSA and 116 ICL install it 4 degrees advanced and try it again to see if it makes more power. I would think those heads that intake and that blower on those cubic inches would want at least a 65* EVO if not a little more and you're no where near that. Do you have a dyno graph? I also think it needs more compression, a blower motor takes engine power to spin and a big blower like that needs a powerful engine to turn it. 9.5:1 is more where I would want to see it with a different camshaft.
That camshaft is all wrong though, it needs a lot more exhaust split. What is the LSA and ICL?
If it's 116 LSA and 116 ICL install it 4 degrees advanced and try it again to see if it makes more power. I would think those heads that intake and that blower on those cubic inches would want at least a 65* EVO if not a little more and you're no where near that. Do you have a dyno graph? I also think it needs more compression, a blower motor takes engine power to spin and a big blower like that needs a powerful engine to turn it. 9.5:1 is more where I would want to see it with a different camshaft.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; Sep 16, 2012 at 03:17 AM.
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It's on e85. Found the problem!!! I just got a wild hair the other night and checked my boost pre Intercooler about 6" from the outlet of the blower. It was 30+ psi! Checked post Intercooler about 6" from outlet, boost was 15-16lbs. Same as intake was reading. So this 1,600$ Intercooler suppose to support up to 1300hp is not doing its job.
Yesterday I was able to get my hands on another procharger Intercooler. I had the same problems!! Only able to build 15-16 lbs in the intake. 30+lbs pre Intercooler.
Anyone running a overpriced procharger Intercooler and making over 15lbs boost?
Yesterday I was able to get my hands on another procharger Intercooler. I had the same problems!! Only able to build 15-16 lbs in the intake. 30+lbs pre Intercooler.
Anyone running a overpriced procharger Intercooler and making over 15lbs boost?
Try one of the cheap ebay 4" wide intercoolers. For $100 or so, it's worth it to see if fit helps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XXX-LARGE-31...orcev4exp=true
I'd send the intercooler back to Procharger if it's really that bad, especially if it was as much as you say.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XXX-LARGE-31...orcev4exp=true
I'd send the intercooler back to Procharger if it's really that bad, especially if it was as much as you say.
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I'm going to see if I can track one down in Kc just to try. I had a couple guys suggest the same thing.
Luckily I live a few miles from procharger, so first thing in the morning I will be there! The only crapper is I'll have to modify the Intercooler to accept the MAF..
Luckily I live a few miles from procharger, so first thing in the morning I will be there! The only crapper is I'll have to modify the Intercooler to accept the MAF..
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You guys think it would hurt just to put a strait piece of tube in just to try it? Or prob not even worth it cause I'm positive that's the problem.
We dynoed the motor just to try and figure things out the other day. I just disconnected the inlet of the Intercooler and took the belt off. The motor only made 275hp! Then we put a cold air intake directly on the throttle body motor made 404hp!! That was on a crap tune wasn't trying to shoot for the moon. Just wanted to make sure the engine was there. concluded that the Intercooler had some major issues!
We dynoed the motor just to try and figure things out the other day. I just disconnected the inlet of the Intercooler and took the belt off. The motor only made 275hp! Then we put a cold air intake directly on the throttle body motor made 404hp!! That was on a crap tune wasn't trying to shoot for the moon. Just wanted to make sure the engine was there. concluded that the Intercooler had some major issues!
I would still advance the camshaft 4-5 degrees to get the exhaust valve open sooner. You're stuffing all kinds of cylinder pressure into the cylinder but taking forever to open the exhaust valve. You got to get that heat out of the chamber and the sooner you can start the blow down of the piston on the power stroke the sooner you can cram more incoming air into the chamber you just evacuated.
If you're running E85 I'd honestly scrap the intercooler and add a methanol injection set-up and run 100% M1 through it. I think you will see a huge power increase in ditching the I/C until you can get one that truly works like it should and not some giant restriction.
Not with 8.5 static compression and nearly 7.0:1 DCR.
I would still advance the camshaft 4-5 degrees to get the exhaust valve open sooner. You're stuffing all kinds of cylinder pressure into the cylinder but taking forever to open the exhaust valve. You got to get that heat out of the chamber and the sooner you can start the blow down of the piston on the power stroke the sooner you can cram more incoming air into the chamber you just evacuated.
If you're running E85 I'd honestly scrap the intercooler and add a methanol injection set-up and run 100% M1 through it. I think you will see a huge power increase in ditching the I/C until you can get one that truly works like it should and not some giant restriction.
I would still advance the camshaft 4-5 degrees to get the exhaust valve open sooner. You're stuffing all kinds of cylinder pressure into the cylinder but taking forever to open the exhaust valve. You got to get that heat out of the chamber and the sooner you can start the blow down of the piston on the power stroke the sooner you can cram more incoming air into the chamber you just evacuated.
If you're running E85 I'd honestly scrap the intercooler and add a methanol injection set-up and run 100% M1 through it. I think you will see a huge power increase in ditching the I/C until you can get one that truly works like it should and not some giant restriction.
You guys think it would hurt just to put a strait piece of tube in just to try it? Or prob not even worth it cause I'm positive that's the problem.
We dynoed the motor just to try and figure things out the other day. I just disconnected the inlet of the Intercooler and took the belt off. The motor only made 275hp! Then we put a cold air intake directly on the throttle body motor made 404hp!! That was on a crap tune wasn't trying to shoot for the moon. Just wanted to make sure the engine was there. concluded that the Intercooler had some major issues!
We dynoed the motor just to try and figure things out the other day. I just disconnected the inlet of the Intercooler and took the belt off. The motor only made 275hp! Then we put a cold air intake directly on the throttle body motor made 404hp!! That was on a crap tune wasn't trying to shoot for the moon. Just wanted to make sure the engine was there. concluded that the Intercooler had some major issues!
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Not with 8.5 static compression and nearly 7.0:1 DCR.
I would still advance the camshaft 4-5 degrees to get the exhaust valve open sooner. You're stuffing all kinds of cylinder pressure into the cylinder but taking forever to open the exhaust valve. You got to get that heat out of the chamber and the sooner you can start the blow down of the piston on the power stroke the sooner you can cram more incoming air into the chamber you just evacuated.
If you're running E85 I'd honestly scrap the intercooler and add a methanol injection set-up and run 100% M1 through it. I think you will see a huge power increase in ditching the I/C until you can get one that truly works like it should and not some giant restriction.
I would still advance the camshaft 4-5 degrees to get the exhaust valve open sooner. You're stuffing all kinds of cylinder pressure into the cylinder but taking forever to open the exhaust valve. You got to get that heat out of the chamber and the sooner you can start the blow down of the piston on the power stroke the sooner you can cram more incoming air into the chamber you just evacuated.
If you're running E85 I'd honestly scrap the intercooler and add a methanol injection set-up and run 100% M1 through it. I think you will see a huge power increase in ditching the I/C until you can get one that truly works like it should and not some giant restriction.
What advancing the cam will do will astound you. Aside from gaining dynamic compression and allowing more torque to be carried after peak torque to peak horsepower from opening the exhaust valve sooner it will allow a wider window of tuning by getting heat out of the cylinder quicker from opening the exhaust valve sooner. No his boost wasn't hiding there and no his lost power wasn't either, but that camshaft isn't optimal for his set-up and needs different valve events than what it has for this thing to be completely efficient.
the motor made 420RWHP with NO BLOWER or any kind of forced induction... id say somethings working right making that kind of power on a 9-1 motor setup for boost on a crappy tune.... it is purely an issue of the motor not getting the boost or airflow it needs at that, we are talking 15-20 psi drop through the intercooler.
this procharger kit is by far the worst setup i have ever dealt with and quality is no were near what i expected of such a widely know shop....
This issue has been going on and research out the wazoo, trouble shooting the cam, timing motor etc was also our first steps but after the N/A test and pre intercooler post intercooler test we have locked in the issue.
this procharger kit is by far the worst setup i have ever dealt with and quality is no were near what i expected of such a widely know shop....
This issue has been going on and research out the wazoo, trouble shooting the cam, timing motor etc was also our first steps but after the N/A test and pre intercooler post intercooler test we have locked in the issue.