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Meh. I feel like all of those scratches are going to allow more blow-by than smooth cylinder walls would.
Edit: I guess I stand corrected. See also.
It's not the most intuitive thing to eyeball if you haven't read about it before. I wouldn't do this if I weren't installing new rings. A clean 100K-mile LS2 probably didn't need it but I wanted the experience and peace of mind. That cross-hatch gets knocked down a bit more as the rings break in over the first 2-4 hours of engine running. It is still visible at that point, but glass-smooth to the touch.
Originally Posted by FuzzyLog1c
Not sure if this is something that should be attempted with a drill brush, though.
Brush Research Manufacturing and [the rest of the world on]YouTube seem to agree that this is exactly what you do with a drill brush. A fancy, more spendy drill brush, but still a brush in a drill. You seem like the type that would enjoy geeking out on the BRM website for a while. I know I enjoy it quite a bit:
Surprised you haven't brought up their "Flex-Hone for ROTORS." I just noticed this product and am definitely going to get some. I've always just done some light sanding on flywheels, pressure plates, rotors when I have to pull them apart for other maintenance and don't replace the actual parts. This seems like *exactly* what I was emulating:
Last weekend, I took the heads off for the first time ever... it was about time to install new lifters and gaskets, ARP bolts, a ported oil pump, and Cloyes Race Billet timing set and Katech C5-R chain. Mainly, I wanted to document the condition of the engine since I'm almost ready to install the LSX and sell the LS2. To be honest, I wasn't sure what I'd find. Was expecting a horror show. Instead, I found cam lobes in great condition, and about 1/8" carbon buildup on the piston heads that wiped off after a couple of applications of brake cleaner and a little coaxing with a plastic non-marring spudger (the kind you'd use to pry sensitive electronic ribbon cables off PCBs). My guess is that the carbon was mostly from the 24,000 miles prior to installing a catch can.
I'm sure I could've done more to clean/polish it up, but I don't care about this engine. Aluminum block, cast crank... meh. Cleaned the undersides of the 243 heads with brake cleaner and a Cyclo aqua soft shampoo brush at 1850 RPM (max speed on my Milwaukee M18 fuel drill).
For those of you who might remember, I had an issue where one of two valve retainer locks broke on my intake valve and went God knows where... I think the divot on the surface of cylinder #1 might indicate where it landed before being blown out the exhaust. I also found a couple valve seal spring pieces in the lifter trays--if they hadn't gotten stuck there, the remains probably would've fallen straight through and landed in the oil pan.
That's about par for any engine that's been run for some miles. LS is a bit dirty PCV-wise, but they all get that build-up pretty quickly. I'll be running a pretty good can setup from go with this build. I expect the intake and intake ports/valves to be cleaner but it will be interesting to see if the pistons really are significantly cleaner after running some time. I suspect not but am willing to be surprised.
If you haven't buttoned it back up yet, I'd wipe the cylinders with whatever oil you usually run, turn the engine over a couple of times, wipe down again. The brake cleaner gets those parts a bit too clean. If you have buttoned up but not fired yet, Sta-Bil makes some fogging oil that can be misted in through the plug hole. Sells at all parts stores or Walmart. If not, probably not the end of the world but this is basically the same effect as fuel wash for a brief period.
Good luck with your build! I am still kicking around the idea of something with a big bore and short stroke. Might build that while I run this one..if it doesn't blow up!
Having had an LT1 T56 with a Ripper, an LS1 T56 with a Pro 5.0, and this CTS-V with the Creative Steel ...the difference will be almost a revelation. "Why didn't this Cadillac shifter feel this good to start with?" Would it be worth the money for ONLY shift feel? I'd say not, but like Mercier said, if you need a built tranny anyway, may as well do this while you're in there. I spent a ton making my old f-body nicer: sound deadening, SFCs, Bilstein shocks, etc. It almost rode as nice as a Camry while cornering harder than a Vette...basically almost on par with my V1 with Hotchkis. That car's shifter was still a world nicer than this car. Enough rambling...it will make Merc's V1 much more satisfying to row hundreds of times every day you drive it.
Good advice on oiling those cylinder walls!! I'd also suggest break in oil or Marvel Mystery oil as other good options. Marvel Mystery oil saved my old TBI Suburban when the rings got washed with fuel after some ding dong pinched an injector o-ring when rebuilding the TBI. Engine locked up hard while cranking. Filled the cylinders with Marvel through the plug holes, replace plugs, let it sit over night, pull plugs, crank by hand (it wouldn't the day before), replace plugs. Started right up. This saved a 95 TBI 350 with 300k last year. It's now got 335k on it. Yeah...I'm a fan of MMO.
Having had an LT1 T56 with a Ripper, an LS1 T56 with a Pro 5.0, and this CTS-V with the Creative Steel ...the difference will be almost a revelation. "Why didn't this Cadillac shifter feel this good to start with?" Would it be worth the money for ONLY shift feel? I'd say not, but like Mercier said, if you need a built tranny anyway, may as well do this while you're in there. I spent a ton making my old f-body nicer: sound deadening, SFCs, Bilstein shocks, etc. It almost rode as nice as a Camry while cornering harder than a Vette...basically almost on par with my V1 with Hotchkis. That car's shifter was still a world nicer than this car. Enough rambling...it will make Merc's V1 much more satisfying to row hundreds of times every day you drive it.
This is my hope!
Originally Posted by jmilz28
Good advice on oiling those cylinder walls!! I'd also suggest break in oil or Marvel Mystery oil as other good options. Marvel Mystery oil saved my old TBI Suburban when the rings got washed with fuel after some ding dong pinched an injector o-ring when rebuilding the TBI. Engine locked up hard while cranking. Filled the cylinders with Marvel through the plug holes, replace plugs, let it sit over night, pull plugs, crank by hand (it wouldn't the day before), replace plugs. Started right up. This saved a 95 TBI 350 with 300k last year. It's now got 335k on it. Yeah...I'm a fan of MMO.
That is an impressive amount of miles! Makes one wonder why everyone seems so amazed that we get 300K+ out of the LS engines. Maybe the extra power plus the longevity.
So I got this stuff from Total Seal..Quick Seat. Supposed to significantly shorten/improve ring break-in. Says if it went green-ish I'm good so I guess I got things clean enough. At very least it made me clean the bores a lot better than my lazy *** probably would have otherwise! Starts off as a black-silver graphite-esque very fine powder. Very little. Maybe if this were some good nose candy I might pay that much for that little but it really does go a long way. Your finger gets rather coated in it and you are just smearing it on, adding just a little powder when it gets thin.
My phone didn't quite pick it up but it is more green in-person. Not Riddler green(much to my chagrin) but like a light olive.
It's a function of material quality, assembly quality, and how "overbuilt" the system is. Chevy small blocks have always excelled in this area. The base build, i.e. how overbuilt it is, is not as vastly different as they used to be. I mean a rated 400hp motor is probably only overbuilt 50-60% whereas my old 225hp motor is overbuilt well into 100%+. So the improvements in cleanliness, efficiency, and tolerance in today's engines are offset by mass of the old iron engine and my OCD maintenance regime. No reason any LS motor shouldn't go 300k with excellent maintenance and easy/normal use. Now...normal use on a 400hp rated motor will likely be different than one rated at 275-300 in a truck, even if the actual changes are nominal. Yes, the goalposts move...alot.
It's a function of material quality, assembly quality, and how "overbuilt" the system is. Chevy small blocks have always excelled in this area. The base build, i.e. how overbuilt it is, is not as vastly different as they used to be. I mean a rated 400hp motor is probably only overbuilt 50-60% whereas my old 225hp motor is overbuilt well into 100%+. So the improvements in cleanliness, efficiency, and tolerance in today's engines are offset by mass of the old iron engine and my OCD maintenance regime. No reason any LS motor shouldn't go 300k with excellent maintenance and easy/normal use. Now...normal use on a 400hp rated motor will likely be different than one rated at 275-300 in a truck, even if the actual changes are nominal. Yes, the goalposts move...alot.
I'm at 250k and my LS6 burns a quart every 6k or so and it still pumping mid 20s oil pressure at idle and 50ish on the highway. It's a little down on power but not much so it's probably due for some valve train work but I'm torn on whether to mess with it or not. I'm thinking a fresh set of valvesprings wouldn't hurt this thing at all.
I bet you're right, timing chain probably a bit loose too at that mileage. That quart every 6k is actually pretty good. Mine seems to dispose of that much and it's only at 75k. I find it hard to avoid the "while I'm in there" if I have to do such maintenance or repairs. Gotta pull the intake anyway, right?
I bet you're right, timing chain probably a bit loose too at that mileage. That quart every 6k is actually pretty good. Mine seems to dispose of that much and it's only at 75k. I find it hard to avoid the "while I'm in there" if I have to do such maintenance or repairs. Gotta pull the intake anyway, right?
I can have the heads off this thing in a couple of hours but if I'm pulling the balancer, it's getting a cam which means a tune etc...of course that means port work and 3k later, I probably would be happier taking that cash and stepping into a V2. A valve job/valve springs at this point would be strictly a maintenance thing to preserve what I've got because my V1 isn't going anywhere...what could I get for it anyway?
I can't say as I've heard of any wear related cam chain failures and very few oil pump failures so I'm having a hard time justifying digging that deep from a maintenance perspective.
EDIT: If I pull the lifters and they have a ton of wear on them, then I won't have much choice bit I'd rather leave it alone if I could.
I suggested a timing chain only because they DO stretch over time, costing power and MPGs. Only if it gets loose enough to jump a tooth do you actually have a major issue, which happens but not all that often. Does it make sense as a maintenance item? If you're doing your own work and want to see how much longer she'll go, maybe. I did mine (old SBC) and it made a notable difference, the tired feeling went away. If it were me, and I am looking at similar concerns as you are, I'd keep running it as-is and look for a 6.2 long block and intake/fuel rail/TB to drop in there. For 3-5 grand, you could have a reasonably low mileage aluminum 6.2, delete DoD, replace the reluctor, drop it in, tune it and have a notable bump in HP and TQ and keep the OEM reliability. I'd do that and run the current engine until it dies. 400hp in a 346 and 415 in a 376 feels WAY different. Just my current 2 cents...
You've been too busy over on Naf's thread trying to make sense of it all.
I tried. But he's really out on the thin branches of modding. That's a great thing but just a place where I am not able to contribute. Going to be a beast when it runs.
How have I not been in this thread!? I'm pumped for this trans option!
Thanks; me too.
Divorced shifters are for automatics. Period. I'm sure my mom would rather the remote shifter. Maybe my grandma as well. Not for me. Engine and trans goes one way, shifter(via car body) goes another way..where's third gear now? Crap all over that crappy crap. So it won't be as smooth and vibe-free as a M5. I grew up expecting to feel what was going on under the hood through the stick. IMO, this is the way it ought to be.
Fingers crossed I can get it all fitted! Engine should be together in about a week or so. Bringing the clutch, flywheel to be balanced hopefully tomorrow.
I didn't see the V1 catch can setup on the MM website and admittedly haven't searched for a thread on the subject. Did you order the C5 kit (as it seems to be the simplest mounting) or piece it together yourself?
I didn't see the V1 catch can setup on the MM website and admittedly haven't searched for a thread on the subject. Did you order the C5 kit (as it seems to be the simplest mounting) or piece it together yourself?
Bought it off of Steve(05CTSV) when he changed his mind about needing it. I assume you are correct or close but we are both going with LS3 intake and other such parts so there was going to be some light fab anyway. He doesn't remember and I have to do some rigging so we'll see what I end up with and compare it to a kit I guess. I don't see why a Vette kit wouldn't pretty much fit anyway.
If you need a ported LS3 intake, I have one. Was going to convert to LS3 heads, but decided not to.
Sadly, it's not compatible with LS7/LSX heads.
Will PM you for details. I managed to luck out and traded straight up my factory loaded LS2 intake for same LS3 but ported sounds nice!
What LSX heads are you planning on? LS7-style intake port is surely a different animal..actually closer to square than rectangle compared to LS3/9/A from what I've looked at. Massive ports. I am fairly sure that LSX block can accommodate 4-bolt LS3/9/A/92 heads as well as some 6-bolt heads that are actually the LS3 style ports. IIRC, the former would be "LSX-LS7" and the latter "LSX-LS3" or similar.
Or did I just waste a lot of typing because you mean you have settled on the 6-bolt LS7-style heads for the LSX block?
09-07-2016, 11:40 AM
