H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)
06-04-2017 | 07:36 AM
#41
First change I would make is YT lifters and larger OD pushrods. The stock rockers and brass guides are not a good mix and the lift pattern is a bit better. I found the stiffer (larger OD) pushrods made a difference above 6K RPM on mine so I was likely getting come valve bounce at higher RPM due to pushrod flex. These two things IMO can cause issues down the road with the entire valve train including the cam.
06-04-2017 | 01:40 PM
#42
man I would be ecstatic with those numbers!!! Im not bashing tony at all because i love my build he did for me, and I know i would of been alot higher with 102 intake and some 1 7/8 headers... anyways, if it makes you feel better, i originally had 243 heads that were ported i bought used 10.9cr, tv2 cam, ls7 lifters, harden push rods, king bearings, scat rods, mahle pistons -4cc. all arp bolts LS6 INTAKE, kooks 1 3/4 headers, 3" dual exhaust dumped, through monster stage 3 clutch lightweight fly to a 9 inch with 4.11 gears... Made 438/405....
heads messed up so i contacted tony.
went with his 223 heads milled to 56cc, hollow valves, 11.4cr, 235/240 .615/.620 113+3 cam, manton pushrods, johnson lifters, yt rockers. everything else the same. ended up loosing hp. and gaining tq. 432/409... needless to say it was not a very good day lol... but pat g told me his dyno has changed since last time it was tuned and usually reads 5% less than it did before... as well as my car is not breathing well and starving for air....
like i said i still love my build and know i left alot on the table with not upgrading the intake at least.
heads messed up so i contacted tony.
went with his 223 heads milled to 56cc, hollow valves, 11.4cr, 235/240 .615/.620 113+3 cam, manton pushrods, johnson lifters, yt rockers. everything else the same. ended up loosing hp. and gaining tq. 432/409... needless to say it was not a very good day lol... but pat g told me his dyno has changed since last time it was tuned and usually reads 5% less than it did before... as well as my car is not breathing well and starving for air....
like i said i still love my build and know i left alot on the table with not upgrading the intake at least.
Last edited by caturnbull1; 06-04-2017 at 01:47 PM.
06-05-2017 | 01:18 PM
#46
Thanks for all the comments and feedback on this build guys, i also thinking of adding some 3.90 gears and i will be taking it to the track as soon as the weather gets a little better, it has been lots of raining here in the Houston area. As soon as the rain and weather get better i will mount a CCW DragPack and head out for some 1/4 mile passes....
01-03-2019 | 10:49 AM
#51
11 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 665
Likes: 4
Not to rain on the OP's parade (a parade I'm walking and attending myself!), on paper this is not a recipe for a 500 WHP build and expecting close to that on an honest dyno is really asking for too much (and unnecessarily setting yourself up for disappointment which is why I take the time to post).
Anyone truly looking for 500 RWHP has to know up front that you cant leave a stone un-turned in your quest to get there (with a stock 346), especially one with a mild cam profile....its extremely difficult and everything needs to be optimized and even then your likely to fall short. That's the reality of the situation....there is a reason less than 1% of the folks that post on this board have achieved that number
Couple of "stones" you didnt turn over listed below....this is why I say on paper this isn't a 500 RWHP build....its more of a 465 ish RWHP build (IMO) quickly glancing over things but that's not a number to be ashamed off by any means. Cracking 450 with a small cammed build that's alot more explosive and fun to drive is still very impressive....the more time you have spent here on Tech the more you know that to be true.
The choice of heads....while I feel my MMS 223 is an excellent head (really excellent factoring in the cost), my MMS 220 is a better choice if your shooting for the elusive (and very exclusive) 500 club.
LS7 lifters....The OEM lifters give up lift and duration compared to a much better Johnson with the short travel feature. That costs you power and are slightly noisier not to mention
Stock rockers....not as optimal as roller rockers....less net effective lift
FAST 102....Needs to be ported (not sure if it is....worth mentioning in the event it isn't).
Clutch....often overlooked and the source of many folks not being as close to 500 as they could have been. You NEED a lightweight unit which can be worth 12-14 RWHP over a unit that weighs 50+ lbs.....something in the low/mid 30's is ideal for making power and providing enough inertia for good drivability. The Mamofied RPS unit I offer is the perfect clutch for this particular task
These are some of the things that quickly jumped at me looking down the build list and worth mentioning.
On paper this build is closer to 450 RWHP than it is 500 but landing anywhere in between those two numbers would be a job well accomplished and a very enjoyable car to drive....it will be fast with no sacrifice in the day to day enjoyment of the car which can get old quick with big cams that only target the peak number of the power curve
Hope some of you find this post enlightening and give you some things to think about!
Regards,
Tony
Anyone truly looking for 500 RWHP has to know up front that you cant leave a stone un-turned in your quest to get there (with a stock 346), especially one with a mild cam profile....its extremely difficult and everything needs to be optimized and even then your likely to fall short. That's the reality of the situation....there is a reason less than 1% of the folks that post on this board have achieved that number
Couple of "stones" you didnt turn over listed below....this is why I say on paper this isn't a 500 RWHP build....its more of a 465 ish RWHP build (IMO) quickly glancing over things but that's not a number to be ashamed off by any means. Cracking 450 with a small cammed build that's alot more explosive and fun to drive is still very impressive....the more time you have spent here on Tech the more you know that to be true.
The choice of heads....while I feel my MMS 223 is an excellent head (really excellent factoring in the cost), my MMS 220 is a better choice if your shooting for the elusive (and very exclusive) 500 club.
LS7 lifters....The OEM lifters give up lift and duration compared to a much better Johnson with the short travel feature. That costs you power and are slightly noisier not to mention
Stock rockers....not as optimal as roller rockers....less net effective lift
FAST 102....Needs to be ported (not sure if it is....worth mentioning in the event it isn't).
Clutch....often overlooked and the source of many folks not being as close to 500 as they could have been. You NEED a lightweight unit which can be worth 12-14 RWHP over a unit that weighs 50+ lbs.....something in the low/mid 30's is ideal for making power and providing enough inertia for good drivability. The Mamofied RPS unit I offer is the perfect clutch for this particular task
These are some of the things that quickly jumped at me looking down the build list and worth mentioning.
On paper this build is closer to 450 RWHP than it is 500 but landing anywhere in between those two numbers would be a job well accomplished and a very enjoyable car to drive....it will be fast with no sacrifice in the day to day enjoyment of the car which can get old quick with big cams that only target the peak number of the power curve
Hope some of you find this post enlightening and give you some things to think about!
Regards,
Tony
Mike.