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When I fitted my current clutch/flywheel, I actually used flex plate ARP bolts. They dont have that silly step and use a larger diameter head. Much much better engagement with the socket
Although not sure they'd be so compatible with a flywheel with a recess for the bolts like the OP's has.
I needed a bolt with a shorter head as the triple plate clutch had interference issues with the regular ARP bolt. The normal ARP bolt is just a bad design.
Am trying to see if I can find a local to weld a nut on. After taking an air chisel to it after using my cheap torch it looks like my two year old was working on it. First experience working with a torch or air chisel and it looks like it... If I. Go. Any further I'm likely going to need a new fly wheel to boot.
Although the nut extractors I listed would probably still bite into it, they are pretty amazing. But you do still need a load of heat because of the loctite you used.
If you do weld a nut on, thin it down and use something with maybe a 14, 15, 16mm hole in the middle...ie a pretty large one to make sure you get as much of a full weld onto it as possible.
The heat from the weld should also meld the loctite.
I don't think the red loctite is a poor choice to use on bolts you don't want to take a chance on. However, I don't use the loctite brand, I use permatex red on the flywheel bolts. They call it "high strength" not "permanent". They claim it needs heat to remove, but I've never needed heat. I don't use a ton of it and have never had any trouble with an impact braking them loose. I'm still using the stock hex head bolts. I also use the tightest fitting socket I can get on them too...be it metric or standard....can't remember which....I think I use a metric on them.
I don't think the red loctite is a poor choice to use on bolts you don't want to take a chance on. However, I don't use the loctite brand, I use permatex red on the flywheel bolts. They call it "high strength" not "permanent". They claim it needs heat to remove, but I've never needed heat. I don't use a ton of it and have never had any trouble with an impact braking them loose. I'm still using the stock hex head bolts. I also use the tightest fitting socket I can get on them too...be it metric or standard....can't remember which....I think I use a metric on them.
It's a very poor choice...the only reason you're using any compound at all is to seal from oil passing. Not to lock the bolt.
Red loctite is a very strong bonding agent for generally for bearings.
OEM hex bolts are much more friendly in use than those ARP's, the ARP flywheel boltsreally are ****. I cant think of anything positive to say about them at all !
It's a very poor choice...the only reason you're using any compound at all is to seal from oil passing. Not to lock the bolt.
Red loctite is a very strong bonding agent for generally for bearings.
Sealing up oil from passing on flywheel bolts? LoL, last time I checked the crankshaft, they are all blind holes(I think....). Red can be used for both bolts and bearings. When our loctite rep came in to do our training(many, many years ago), I don't recall them recommending it for "sealing" against oil and fiuids. It was strictly to be used to prevent vibration from working the bolt loose. I don't think that's changed, but I might be wrong.
As with all tools, it comes down to the user knowing how and when to properly use each one.
As others say, red loctite as a very very poor choice, and will absolutely need a torch on it before trying to undo as you need to soften the loctite. A crappy blowtorch probably wont cut it, it'll need mapp gas or similar to get some real heat into it.
If the head size is actually 13mm, 1/2" is a fraction smaller than that, so might be an option ? Better still an impact 1/2" as they're just stronger. Although I think they are 1/2" anyway ? ARP have a bad habit of doing that, metric bolts with imperial heads.
If the head really does get damaged, these tools can be excellent at removing rounded nuts.
But whilst some say a 12pt shouldnt strip, it does have to be said that the ARP bolts here are ****. The depth of the spline is crap so socket engagement also usually crap. In many cases I'd say these need re-newed at laast every change or couple of changes because the head can tend to get a little damage because of the need for threadlock and the torque they require.
ARP really should make these better with more spline depth.
As for welding options....that would impart a lot of heat too which can help melt the loctite....and worst case again, a basic arc welder can be bought very cheaply and would probably be fine to try and sort that.
But no matter what you do here, a lot of heat is required...and judging from the debris around some of those removed in the photo...go a little easier on the loctite next time around too...looks like a ton has been used.
The 9 o clock one is stripped.
Key here is getting a quality socket that is on spec and a tight fit. If the fit feels lposr NEVER use an impact. A long breaker bar gives you a force arm that will nit hammer your bolt head to shreds.
Sealing up oil from passing on flywheel bolts? LoL, last time I checked the crankshaft, they are all blind holes(I think....). Red can be used for both bolts and bearings. When our loctite rep came in to do our training(many, many years ago), I don't recall them recommending it for "sealing" against oil and fiuids. It was strictly to be used to prevent vibration from working the bolt loose. I don't think that's changed, but I might be wrong.
As with all tools, it comes down to the user knowing how and when to properly use each one.
Check again, they are not blind holes. They require sealing from oil passing, they do not require locking to prevent them coming loose.
Check again, they are not blind holes. They require sealing from oil passing, they do not require locking to prevent them coming loose.
ACE has an LT1, and on that engine, they are blind holes. I'm assuming you've had a bad experience with ARP, because there are many of us who use their fasteners successfully. I've had my ARP flywheel bolts for years.
ACE has an LT1, and on that engine, they are blind holes. I'm assuming you've had a bad experience with ARP, because there are many of us who use their fasteners successfully. I've had my ARP flywheel bolts for years.
This thread is not about ACE's LT1 engine, it is about a user with an LS engine.
I've used the ARP bolts too, but that doesnt change the fact these bolts for this application are a **** design with very poor socket engagement due to the shallow small diameter splines....which there is really no reason for.
And obviously if you just fit them and torque them up and never need to use them again....it's almost impossible to have issue ( unless you use loads of red loctite lol )
Last edited by stevieturbo; 12-26-2017 at 03:11 PM.
This thread is not about ACE's LT1 engine, it is about a user with an LS engine.
Didn't realize on an LS they are not blind. I assumed they were, so that is a good point and is my screw up. Wonder why they drilled them all way through? Guess it doesn't matter...got to seal them with something if you don't want the thing weeping oil.
For the record the original socket I used was a 3/8",sunex impact socket using a long ratchet and not my impact. I bought a brand new 1/2" drive Craftsman socket for the second attempt. I felt I had good socket to bolt engagement.
The first time I pulled the motor was also the first time I pulled a clutch or flywheel in my life. Given I have a supercharged application I was concerned about the flywheel and clutch bolts rattling loose in addition to leaking. I used red loctite on the clutch bolts also. Will not be doing that again, will use blue loctite. Thanks for the suggestions, I found a shop that will weld a nut on but I got to get the block there.
There is still a decent amount of fluid in it and all I have is my wife's acura mdx to transport the block. My wife has warned me if the block leaks Coolant all over her car I'm a dead man. Going to hang it by the hoist and try and pour out ad much Coolant from. The passages as possible, hopefully the next post is a happy ending within a week or so.
At this point the head is so mangled I think welding a nut on it is the next option. Need to make sure, as others mentioned, to get that thing heated up to weaken the loctite.
If the nut does not work, then the next option will most likely be machining off the head. Then the next problem will be the bolt left in the crank.
Hopefully, between welding the nut and heating up the bolt will break the thing loose. It's a mean problem to have happen.
And obviously if you just fit them and torque them up and never need to use them again....it's almost impossible to have issue ( unless you use loads of red loctite lol )
And I've had them off and on a number of times over those years. But hey, you seem to like assuming stuff. Knock yourself out.
Welder showed up and didn't have the right Flux for hardened steel. So I ground the bolt out. That bolt hole is now acorn shaped. Am I rolling the dice on reusing the flywheel? Oh and my ringlands on piston 7 are toast.
Personally, I like the ARP bolts design in this application. Never had an issue torquing them, or removing them either. I remove them with an impact gun...
As I posted earlier, I used Loctite my first go around with the LS ARP flywheel bolt application. I used a drop of red on them, which is all that is required with red...a drop.
My bolts allowed oil to weep, which caused an occasional drop to form on the bottom of my bellhousing. I discovered during removal, to install my 434” that the oil was coming from the bolts not being sealed. They WERE AT PROPER TORQUE, as I checked before removal. The Loctite did not act as a sealant, but it’s not supposed to.
I spoke to Tony Mamo regarding sealant, and he suggested using a thread sealant with Teflon. The ARP flywheel bolts do not require a thread locker here, but a sealant is REQUIRED to keep oil from weeping. I’ve use thread sealant with Teflon on every flywheel bolt in my LS builds since, properly torqued, with no issues.
GM utilizes a sealant/locker combo on their flywheel bolts, that’s blue in color, and is pretty thick. It does the proper job sealing and locking (holding) the Oem fasteners, and that’s what the GM engineers get paid to design properly. Keep in mind that the Oem bolts are not designed like aftermarket high performance ARP fasteners.
Heat is perfect for breaking down the holding characteristics of Loctite, and welding a nut to the damaged bolt at the top of this thread would have aided in a safe removal. I’ve used this process before with red Loctite on a stuck and damaged crankshaft balancer bolt, and it worked for me.
OP, sorry about your flywheel, and piston (unrelated) issues. Hopefully all works out for you, and others learn from this process.
12-25-2017, 02:32 PM
