1997 Z28 Red 1LE New 100 miles 1 of 48
#21
TECH Enthusiast
I would think you are the exception then. In my experience, most folks collecting any sort of cars with an eye towards investment purposes, and/or with the hope of big future gains, have some proper insurance on said vehicles. So, for most, that's a cost to be considered.
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I agree. Collecting cars for the purpose, even secondary, of investment is already a risky commitment, and leaving them uninsured greatly increases risk unnecessarily. Agreed value collector policies are usually very affordable, and well worth it especially for anyone who truly expects significant appreciation of their special interest vehicles.
#23
I agree. Collecting cars for the purpose, even secondary, of investment is already a risky commitment, and leaving them uninsured greatly increases risk unnecessarily. Agreed value collector policies are usually very affordable, and well worth it especially for anyone who truly expects significant appreciation of their special interest vehicles.
I don't expect "significant" appreciation, but I do expect to make a bit of money. Since the cars are not driven farther than 10ft out of my shop and back in 2 or 3 times a year, there isn't a big risk involved. The only risk is really the weather and there is a VERY slim chance that it will impact my shop in such a way it would cause destruction to vehicles. The amount of money I expect to make would be offset by insurance costs if I insured the cars for 10-15 years therefore making it contrary to my goal.
#24
I'm curious as to what the electric car market is going to do to the value of these cars in the next 10 to 15 years. My opinion is that there is going to be a major depreciation in value as we become more electrified. Every auto manufacturer is going electric; some completely electric within the next 10 years or less. Then you look at how close we are to self-driving cars. We are on the cusp of a major technological shift that is going to fundamentally alter the world as we have known it. I can easily see a great majority of gasoline powered cars off the road in the next 15 years and their values taking a major plunge.
#25
I'm curious as to what the electric car market is going to do to the value of these cars in the next 10 to 15 years. My opinion is that there is going to be a major depreciation in value as we become more electrified. Every auto manufacturer is going electric; some completely electric within the next 10 years or less. Then you look at how close we are to self-driving cars. We are on the cusp of a major technological shift that is going to fundamentally alter the world as we have known it. I can easily see a great majority of gasoline powered cars off the road in the next 15 years and their values taking a major plunge.
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Since the cars are not driven farther than 10ft out of my shop and back in 2 or 3 times a year, there isn't a big risk involved. The only risk is really the weather and there is a VERY slim chance that it will impact my shop in such a way it would cause destruction to vehicles. The amount of money I expect to make would be offset by insurance costs if I insured the cars for 10-15 years therefore making it contrary to my goal.
If there is still a hobbyist market for fuel for these old dinosaur cars, then it will likely be available to order for decades to come (sort of like currently getting a 55 gallon drum of race fuel delivered to your house when none is available in your region.)
#27
#28
Here is something else to consider: kids born today will live in a world where they may never drive a gasoline powered car, never have to manually drive a car, or even own a car at all. 15 years is plenty of time for a major demographic shift to occur; how old will most of us enthusiasts and gear heads be then?
#29
Here is something else to consider: kids born today will live in a world where they may never drive a gasoline powered car, never have to manually drive a car, or even own a car at all. 15 years is plenty of time for a major demographic shift to occur; how old will most of us enthusiasts and gear heads be then?
Good lord you know how to put a damper on a discussion don't ya? That's really not something I want to think about.
#30
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Here is something else to consider: kids born today will live in a world where they may never drive a gasoline powered car, never have to manually drive a car, or even own a car at all. 15 years is plenty of time for a major demographic shift to occur; how old will most of us enthusiasts and gear heads be then?
Average vehicle age continues to increase, and is currently at almost 12 years old. There is no reason to believe that this trend will reverse, so it's reasonable to project that the average vehicle on the road in ~12 years will be a 2018 model. Almost every car being sold today is gas or partial gas powered; very few are pure electric. In 15 years, the average car will be a 2021 model if this trend continues - and most of those will still be gas powered as well.
Also (and perhaps this will make OKSS feel a bit better ), we could look at this from a different angle: I can still walk into a chain auto parts store and buy drum brake wheel cylinders for my '71 Nova right off the shelf. That car is 47 years old now, and service parts are still available at chain stores like O'reilly and NAPA. And, for items not on the shelf, with a one or two day wait, I can order just about any mechanical item I could imagine for this car from most parts sources. This car is a dinosaur - completely outdated with a gasoline toilet bowl for fuel delivery - yet parts are still available and it, plus hundreds of others just like it, show up every summer weekend at our local cruise nights. That's still happening all over the country. In 15 years, I predict that this car will still be on the road, still with an internal combustion engine, and I truly believe that.
#31
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I'm curious as to what the electric car market is going to do to the value of these cars in the next 10 to 15 years. My opinion is that there is going to be a major depreciation in value as we become more electrified. Every auto manufacturer is going electric; some completely electric within the next 10 years or less. Then you look at how close we are to self-driving cars. We are on the cusp of a major technological shift that is going to fundamentally alter the world as we have known it. I can easily see a great majority of gasoline powered cars off the road in the next 15 years and their values taking a major plunge.
#32
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I remember reading in Mopars Collector Guide back in the 1996-2003 period that environmental rules were soon to be changing such that even getting decent premium gas for our muscle cars was going to be very difficult....and that tightening emissions requirements would take many of our cars off the road. MCG's Enviromasochism column consistently painted a rather bleak picture. Here we are 15-20 yrs later and little has changed...and many of the states don't even tail pipe these cars any more due to exemptions.
In the late '90s/early '00s, Illinois still required tail pipe testing on all vehicles of model year 1968 or newer which were not registered as antiques. Now, anything older than 1996 is totally exempt, regardless of registration type. This was a cost savings measure to allow the test centers to retire the older I/M 240 equipment in favor of OBD scan only testing for '96+ vehicles, and this occurred when statewide registration of 1995 and older vehicles dipped below 30%. So, rather than trying to outlaw older vehicles which were no longer cost-effective to test (as some sources have erroneously suggested would happen over the years), they just exempted them - basically a free pass for the hobbyists.
Another interesting thought: AutoZone, O'reilly, NAPA, Pep Boys and Walmart all carry H6024 7" round 2-system sealed beam headlights right on the shelf. Who even buys these? Most vehicles stopped using them by the early '80s, though a handful continued into the later '80s/early '90s (such as 944s and Miatas, perhaps a couple of others.) This is basically a totally obsolete part, rarely needed even by old car collectors since those cars see such limited usage (and some would rather pay $100+ for repro T3s/PowerBeams anyway), yet several retailers have them ready to sell like it's still 1985.
In some ways it surprises me how many parts are still available for cars that have been generally off the road for decades, kept alive only by the hobbyists.
#33
In the late '90s/early '00s, Illinois still required tail pipe testing on all vehicles of model year 1968 or newer which were not registered as antiques. Now, anything older than 1996 is totally exempt, regardless of registration type. This was a cost savings measure to allow the test centers to retire the older I/M 240 equipment in favor of OBD scan only testing for '96+ vehicles, and this occurred when statewide registration of 1995 and older vehicles dipped below 30%. So, rather than trying to outlaw older vehicles which were no longer cost-effective to test (as some sources have erroneously suggested would happen over the years), they just exempted them - basically a free pass for the hobbyists.
Oklahoma does not have any kind of testing for any kind of vehicle, just pay your yearly tags and drive it.
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This is how most of IL is, other than the ZIP codes in and around Chicago plus a few on the IL side of St. Louis. Even in the testing zones, we can get a show car/race car exemption if qualifications are met, or an automatic exemption for anything registered as an antique. I have the proper type of insurance to get a show car exemption for my '98, but haven't bothered to do so - just 3 more tests/5 more years till I move it to AV registration and then it'll be done with testing forever.
#35
On The Tree
I've been grateful to move from a state like MA (where they now have actual video cameras in inspection bays so RMV monitors can watch inspection techs do a full OBD II scan, safety check etc and can fail you for things like an exhaust louder than OEM, a lift kit 1" too high etc), to FL where so long as it has 4 wheels and headlights, a cop won't bother you. Even then, I think that might be a stretch.
With that said, I too wonder what the future of the hobby is with electrification, driverless cars, ride-sharing programs etc. I have a ton of money tied up in what's in my garage, and am concerned to buy anything more in the near term, until its clear that states will allow for both driver and driverless vehicles on the same road. I follow this stuff closely, especially since demoing the Cadillac CT6's new "Super Cruise" system, which while having limitations, works damn well. I have no desire to have some autobot roll me around...but I can see the appeal for others.
With that said, I too wonder what the future of the hobby is with electrification, driverless cars, ride-sharing programs etc. I have a ton of money tied up in what's in my garage, and am concerned to buy anything more in the near term, until its clear that states will allow for both driver and driverless vehicles on the same road. I follow this stuff closely, especially since demoing the Cadillac CT6's new "Super Cruise" system, which while having limitations, works damn well. I have no desire to have some autobot roll me around...but I can see the appeal for others.
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I've been grateful to move from a state like MA (where they now have actual video cameras in inspection bays so RMV monitors can watch inspection techs do a full OBD II scan, safety check etc and can fail you for things like an exhaust louder than OEM, a lift kit 1" too high etc)
Safety (and emissions) features don't normally need to be retrofitted. My '71 has no shoulder belts, no air bags, no ABS or TC, no modern crumple zones or interior components designed to absorb impacts, etc. It's still perfectly legal to operate on US roads even though it's decades behind in safety tech, and came with zero factory emissions equipment other than an early EVAP system. No reason to believe this will change with the introduction of other new safety features.
I think these sort of concerns apply more at a state or local level in the mid-term (meaning places like CA, and perhaps some major cities, etc.) Any nationwide shift will take decades. I don't expect that I'll be here to see it, or perhaps be too old to care.
#39
Telsla is Revenue positive
Europe has outlawed the sales of new Petroleum cars by 2040
Volvo is going all electric.
Porsche and Ferrari are going Hybrid
All major manufacturers are investing greatly in electric technology.
Economies of scale will soon come into play driving cost down.
China has multiple all electric manufacturers.
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Hahaha, Wrong.
Telsla is Revenue positive
Europe has outlawed the sales of new Petroleum cars by 2040
Volvo is going all electric.
Porsche and Ferrari are going Hybrid
All major manufacturers are investing greatly in electric technology.
Economies of scale will soon come into play driving cost down.
China has multiple all electric manufacturers.
Telsla is Revenue positive
Europe has outlawed the sales of new Petroleum cars by 2040
Volvo is going all electric.
Porsche and Ferrari are going Hybrid
All major manufacturers are investing greatly in electric technology.
Economies of scale will soon come into play driving cost down.
China has multiple all electric manufacturers.
Not worried about IC/gasoline disappearing in my (driving) lifetime, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it never will. Perhaps some of the younger enthusiasts will see this happen. It will take many decades for IC to totally disappear, even if OEMs stopped building new ones in the next ~10-15 years.