Idle Airflow config ?
05-07-2018, 09:36 AM
#1
Idle Airflow config ? When running Russ K's idle config do you zero out the startup and frictional airflow tables along with the adaptive idle tables? Can some give me a complete run-down on what needs to be done to run this config correctly. Thank you.
Last edited by Monte4ever; 05-20-2018 at 12:38 PM.
05-07-2018, 11:01 AM
#2
I can snap some pics when I get home for you but I just set mine up myself. You want to log your desired airflow against your coolant temp. So basically you’ll have your coolant temp labels across the top. Go to your idle air table in the editor and copy your labels. You highlight the table. Right click and you’ll see where it says copy labels. Paste that in your scanner after picking engine coolant temp. Then pick desired airflow. It’ll look just like a maf table. I can give more details when I get home if you need me to.
Make sure it works and you have the paramets set the the same as your editor. In other words if you have it set for g/s then make sure both are set to that. Check make sure it works. Don’t forget to enable a channel for desired airflow and actual airflow. When you start it, your desired airflow will pop up. I do mine a little different than others do and I watch it and at each temp point I watch it and when the actual airflow levels out, I enter in that number manually. Your supposed to let it run though the coolant spektrum and copy paste that but I find it’s not as close as I like it. I prefer close to zero correction. After I’m done entering, I highlight that whole table, and then press the - key twice. Don’t forget to do it for neutral and drive.
Make sure it works and you have the paramets set the the same as your editor. In other words if you have it set for g/s then make sure both are set to that. Check make sure it works. Don’t forget to enable a channel for desired airflow and actual airflow. When you start it, your desired airflow will pop up. I do mine a little different than others do and I watch it and at each temp point I watch it and when the actual airflow levels out, I enter in that number manually. Your supposed to let it run though the coolant spektrum and copy paste that but I find it’s not as close as I like it. I prefer close to zero correction. After I’m done entering, I highlight that whole table, and then press the - key twice. Don’t forget to do it for neutral and drive.
05-07-2018, 11:47 AM
#3
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If you do the logs as described above, when you get to fully warmed up temp, check your dynamic air vs commanded idle air. If they don't match (within reason of course), it means your IAC (assuming cable throttle) effective area table is out of whack. When your IAC table is out, you can log desired idle air until the cows come home and not get any better. I had one I did, set it up, thought it was great (early learning days), and then re-ran the log, and everything was 2-g/s lower. SO I copied that into the tune, and the next morning reran it again to make sure nothing changes, and it would barely run AND the thing was trying to cut 2 more g/sec. So to get the car running right, I quick edited the histogram for dynamic airflow instead of desired airflow, pasted the dynamic air numbers into the tune, which worked. Then I worked on the IAC area table until dynamic air and commanded air matched within reason.
The IAC area table is NOT easy to do. There is nothing you can directly log and paste into the IAC table. I ended up logging IAC position vs dynamic air and IAC position vs commanded air, and then used the dynamic air to "calibrate" the commanded air. I had to use excel and do it manually. There is no way you can log the effective idle area, which is one of the axis in the IAC table. But after doing that, I was able to log commanded air and paste into the tune and reach stability.
PS -- I thought I saw you had posted a tune, but I was on my phone. Now I can't find that post now that I'm at a computer
The IAC area table is NOT easy to do. There is nothing you can directly log and paste into the IAC table. I ended up logging IAC position vs dynamic air and IAC position vs commanded air, and then used the dynamic air to "calibrate" the commanded air. I had to use excel and do it manually. There is no way you can log the effective idle area, which is one of the axis in the IAC table. But after doing that, I was able to log commanded air and paste into the tune and reach stability.
PS -- I thought I saw you had posted a tune, but I was on my phone. Now I can't find that post now that I'm at a computer
05-07-2018, 12:04 PM
#4
Idle Airflow Config is pretty much exactly like Darth said.
Getting the IAC area table right is a bit of a bitch. If you have a stock TB, it should be close. If you have a 90 or 102... well then yeehaw. Time to tune that first.
And that tuning can send you in circles.
Getting the IAC area table right is a bit of a bitch. If you have a stock TB, it should be close. If you have a 90 or 102... well then yeehaw. Time to tune that first.
And that tuning can send you in circles.
05-07-2018, 12:56 PM
#5
Idle Airflow Config is pretty much exactly like Darth said.
Getting the IAC area table right is a bit of a bitch. If you have a stock TB, it should be close. If you have a 90 or 102... well then yeehaw. Time to tune that first.
And that tuning can send you in circles.
Getting the IAC area table right is a bit of a bitch. If you have a stock TB, it should be close. If you have a 90 or 102... well then yeehaw. Time to tune that first.
And that tuning can send you in circles.
good info fellas. For the record, I’m far from a professional. But that’s just what works for me. On the iac I take a different approach. I drill the passages to match the factory throttle body as close as I can. Seems easier to do that than to try and attack it in the tune. That’s just me tho. I’ve had lots of issues with my idle and I just here recently figured out how to set the idle air. That helped tremendously. Keep in mind that if the computer corrects xx amount of air at idle, when you give it gas, that correction goes away and when you let off it has to come back and catch back up. That will cause dips and act wonky. So the closer your idle air is, the better.
05-07-2018, 01:06 PM
#6
Another thing to consider is iac counts. Mine doesn’t do work a poo if the counts are above 60 at idle in neutral with the air and fans off. It needs to be around 40-50 otherwise it won’t act right. Of course this is cable driven throttle body. I tried setting the tps at .65, .62, .59, .55 and finally settled on .49v and now I have a stable idle. I had to slit the tps a little and crack the blade more and drill the hole in the blade a little bigger. My throttle body came with a hole brand new. The factory hole is much bigger however. Sorry for rambling, I just don’t mind sharing the info I have because it might save someone some time.
The reason for the tps voltage is anything above .49 my tps will bounce back and forth between.4% and 0% and boy does it act up.
The reason for the tps voltage is anything above .49 my tps will bounce back and forth between.4% and 0% and boy does it act up.
05-07-2018, 01:11 PM
#7
Thank you for the quick replies and yes please post the pics of how you have it setup. I had my current tune posted in another thread but didn't get any replies so I deleted the post. If you need it i will re-post it. Do I need to zero out the air adders like follower and startup? My problem is at startup only. The first few seconds it idles low (500-600rpms) at first startup even thou the coolant temp is at 70+ degrees.. I ran Russ K config several times with the adaptive idle zeroed out and O2's off. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. I can use all the help I can get.
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05-07-2018, 01:18 PM
#8
I can snap some pics when I get home for you but I just set mine up myself. You want to log your desired airflow against your coolant temp. So basically you’ll have your coolant temp labels across the top. Go to your idle air table in the editor and copy your labels. You highlight the table. Right click and you’ll see where it says copy labels. Paste that in your scanner after picking engine coolant temp. Then pick desired airflow. It’ll look just like a maf table. I can give more details when I get home if you need me to.
Make sure it works and you have the paramets set the the same as your editor. In other words if you have it set for g/s then make sure both are set to that. Check make sure it works. Don’t forget to enable a channel for desired airflow and actual airflow. When you start it, your desired airflow will pop up. I do mine a little different than others do and I watch it and at each temp point I watch it and when the actual airflow levels out, I enter in that number manually. Your supposed to let it run though the coolant spektrum and copy paste that but I find it’s not as close as I like it. I prefer close to zero correction. After I’m done entering, I highlight that whole table, and then press the - key twice. Don’t forget to do it for neutral and drive.
Make sure it works and you have the paramets set the the same as your editor. In other words if you have it set for g/s then make sure both are set to that. Check make sure it works. Don’t forget to enable a channel for desired airflow and actual airflow. When you start it, your desired airflow will pop up. I do mine a little different than others do and I watch it and at each temp point I watch it and when the actual airflow levels out, I enter in that number manually. Your supposed to let it run though the coolant spektrum and copy paste that but I find it’s not as close as I like it. I prefer close to zero correction. After I’m done entering, I highlight that whole table, and then press the - key twice. Don’t forget to do it for neutral and drive.
05-07-2018, 01:29 PM
#9
Well, if you drill the passage in the TB, you need to adjust the IAC counts. But you have to open your TB and drill holes to keep it below .70V or else it will never read 0% TPS. And then it never goes into idle routines. Which, if your idle is set right, it doesn't need. My car idles without adaptive spark. But on decel or coasting, if your TPS is reading above that, your follower will always try to add airflow unless you zero it out. And that's not advisable either.
I know Darth and I both have idle air counts and dynamic air counts that are within 1g of each other pretty much all the time. I have a NW 102 and I drilled out the hole. The amount of bypass air means that almost half of my IAC table is zero'd out. So I get 30-50 counts hot still. But the commanded air matches the dynamic air - and that's the key to a solid idle airflow.
Point is - running idle air config only gives you what the PCM thinks it needs. It may not be actual. First time I ran it on my setup, I think it was 4g/sec off. Low. So the car stalled out when I went for a drive. I ended up just adding 2-3g to make it work, but the STIT were always at -3g/sec until I corrected the IAC table.
I know Darth and I both have idle air counts and dynamic air counts that are within 1g of each other pretty much all the time. I have a NW 102 and I drilled out the hole. The amount of bypass air means that almost half of my IAC table is zero'd out. So I get 30-50 counts hot still. But the commanded air matches the dynamic air - and that's the key to a solid idle airflow.
Point is - running idle air config only gives you what the PCM thinks it needs. It may not be actual. First time I ran it on my setup, I think it was 4g/sec off. Low. So the car stalled out when I went for a drive. I ended up just adding 2-3g to make it work, but the STIT were always at -3g/sec until I corrected the IAC table.
05-07-2018, 01:30 PM
#10
Thank you for the quick replies and yes please post the pics of how you have it setup. I had my current tune posted in another thread but didn't get any replies so I deleted the post. If you need it i will re-post it. Do I need to zero out the air adders like follower and startup? My problem is at startup only. The first few seconds it idles low (500-600rpms) at first startup even thou the coolant temp is at 70+ degrees.. I ran Russ K config several times with the adaptive idle zeroed out and O2's off. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. I can use all the help I can get.
ok, I wish I had my computer in front of me. There’s a couple settings above the throttle follower that have to do with startup. Something like friction something. But honestly you shouldn’t have to mess with that. If I had to guess your VE or maf table isn’t quite right. Every time mine was off it would stumble a little at startup and not have a nice clean start. Try disabling your may temporarily and mess with the ve table a little. Highlight the 400-1200 ranges and go up a little and down a little. If that makes your starting change for the better then you know it’s in your fueling and you need to dial that in better. My money is on your fueling because I’ve recently gone through the same thing.
05-07-2018, 01:38 PM
#11
Try this for Idle Startup Airflow... add a few g there. If it spikes up on startup, especially when warm, bring this down.
g/s -40 -4 31 67 104 140 176 212 248 284 °F
Airflow 4 4 4 3.22 2.80 2.32 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
Also try 20 or 50 camshaft revs for Friction Airflow Decay across the board. That will keep decay from happening.
g/s -40 -4 31 67 104 140 176 212 248 284 °F
Airflow 4 4 4 3.22 2.80 2.32 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
Also try 20 or 50 camshaft revs for Friction Airflow Decay across the board. That will keep decay from happening.
05-07-2018, 02:30 PM
#12
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good info fellas. For the record, I’m far from a professional. But that’s just what works for me. On the iac I take a different approach. I drill the passages to match the factory throttle body as close as I can. Seems easier to do that than to try and attack it in the tune. That’s just me tho. I’ve had lots of issues with my idle and I just here recently figured out how to set the idle air. That helped tremendously. Keep in mind that if the computer corrects xx amount of air at idle, when you give it gas, that correction goes away and when you let off it has to come back and catch back up. That will cause dips and act wonky. So the closer your idle air is, the better.
Another thing to consider is iac counts. Mine doesn’t do work a poo if the counts are above 60 at idle in neutral with the air and fans off. It needs to be around 40-50 otherwise it won’t act right. Of course this is cable driven throttle body. I tried setting the tps at .65, .62, .59, .55 and finally settled on .49v and now I have a stable idle. I had to slit the tps a little and crack the blade more and drill the hole in the blade a little bigger. My throttle body came with a hole brand new. The factory hole is much bigger however. Sorry for rambling, I just don’t mind sharing the info I have because it might save someone some time.The reason for the tps voltage is anything above .49 my tps will bounce back and forth between.4% and 0% and boy does it act up.
Thank you for the quick replies and yes please post the pics of how you have it setup. I had my current tune posted in another thread but didn't get any replies so I deleted the post. If you need it i will re-post it. Do I need to zero out the air adders like follower and startup? My problem is at startup only. The first few seconds it idles low (500-600rpms) at first startup even thou the coolant temp is at 70+ degrees.. I ran Russ K config several times with the adaptive idle zeroed out and O2's off. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. I can use all the help I can get.
Well, if you drill the passage in the TB, you need to adjust the IAC counts. But you have to open your TB and drill holes to keep it below .70V or else it will never read 0% TPS. And then it never goes into idle routines. Which, if your idle is set right, it doesn't need. My car idles without adaptive spark. But on decel or coasting, if your TPS is reading above that, your follower will always try to add airflow unless you zero it out. And that's not advisable either.
I know Darth and I both have idle air counts and dynamic air counts that are within 1g of each other pretty much all the time. I have a NW 102 and I drilled out the hole. The amount of bypass air means that almost half of my IAC table is zero'd out. So I get 30-50 counts hot still. But the commanded air matches the dynamic air - and that's the key to a solid idle airflow.
Point is - running idle air config only gives you what the PCM thinks it needs. It may not be actual. First time I ran it on my setup, I think it was 4g/sec off. Low. So the car stalled out when I went for a drive. I ended up just adding 2-3g to make it work, but the STIT were always at -3g/sec until I corrected the IAC table.
I know Darth and I both have idle air counts and dynamic air counts that are within 1g of each other pretty much all the time. I have a NW 102 and I drilled out the hole. The amount of bypass air means that almost half of my IAC table is zero'd out. So I get 30-50 counts hot still. But the commanded air matches the dynamic air - and that's the key to a solid idle airflow.
Point is - running idle air config only gives you what the PCM thinks it needs. It may not be actual. First time I ran it on my setup, I think it was 4g/sec off. Low. So the car stalled out when I went for a drive. I ended up just adding 2-3g to make it work, but the STIT were always at -3g/sec until I corrected the IAC table.
05-07-2018, 03:16 PM
#13
Yea I used to set my idle to where it would juuust stay running with the iac completely closed. I’d force it shut. That works well too and my idle counts are around 20-30 when I do this. And now that you mention it, next time I have an idle issue I’m going to throw the 50 counts theory out the window and go back to what I used to do. There’s really no good reason that the iac motor should be able to kill the engine if you close it all the way. So yea, I think your right on the money there with getting your counts even lower. My car is acting very close to stock right now but I honestly think I have something wrong with the ecm And I’ve been chasing my tail because of it. I’m sure it’ll start acting up again.
05-07-2018, 05:20 PM
#14
Yea I used to set my idle to where it would juuust stay running with the iac completely closed. I’d force it shut. That works well too and my idle counts are around 20-30 when I do this. And now that you mention it, next time I have an idle issue I’m going to throw the 50 counts theory out the window and go back to what I used to do. There’s really no good reason that the iac motor should be able to kill the engine if you close it all the way. So yea, I think your right on the money there with getting your counts even lower. My car is acting very close to stock right now but I honestly think I have something wrong with the ecm And I’ve been chasing my tail because of it. I’m sure it’ll start acting up again.
05-07-2018, 05:38 PM
#15
Try this for Idle Startup Airflow... add a few g there. If it spikes up on startup, especially when warm, bring this down.
g/s -40 -4 31 67 104 140 176 212 248 284 °F
Airflow 4 4 4 3.22 2.80 2.32 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
Also try 20 or 50 camshaft revs for Friction Airflow Decay across the board. That will keep decay from happening.
g/s -40 -4 31 67 104 140 176 212 248 284 °F
Airflow 4 4 4 3.22 2.80 2.32 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
Also try 20 or 50 camshaft revs for Friction Airflow Decay across the board. That will keep decay from happening.
05-07-2018, 05:58 PM
#16
There's a lot of good info here. I will repost my tune tomorrow (at work now). Honestly, I never paid attention to my IAC's after setting them at hot idle and they are usually around 55-60. My TSP voltage sits at .04 with an occasional dip to 0 but the idle remains very stable for the type of cam I have (Brute Speed Blower Cam). To add to my previous post, I have added over 4gs of air to the Frictional air flow initial table as well with no change in initial startup. I also tried adding fuel thought the OLFA table but it seemed like it was flooding out. Before that I took fuel out of the 'VE table in the startup region (85kpa and up from 400 to 800 rpms) and that helped a lot but didn't fix the issue. BTW I'm using a Edlebrock 90mm TB.
Last edited by Monte4ever; 05-08-2018 at 08:14 PM.
05-07-2018, 07:02 PM
#17
TECH Addict
If it applies,, I have a Jeep Wrangler,, its a 94, which uses a lot of GM sensors, interesting detail, the 2.5 and 4.0 liter engines, use the same mounting flange for the IAC valve but the housing is different in bore size for both engines, You can use the same solenoid unit on both, but the housing is cast with a ID of either 2.5 or 4.0. The only difference is there is a area about 1/8 in thick that has the hole the pintle for the valve goes in to. the 2.5 housing has a hole about 1/8 of an inch smaller than the 4.0. If you swap the housings between a 2.5 and 4.0 the 4.0 won't idle, and the 2.5 idles at 1500 rpm's. Wonder if you could machine the TB to accept the jeep IAC housing, and bore it out till the idle got stable. My 2.5 is running the larger 4.0 TB with the 2.5 housing bolted on it.. Thats kinda how I fell down this rabbit hole.. The bigger TB is due to the cam I'm running in the 4banger.. It just needed more air..
The housing is fairly small and its a pretty simple layout.. I think it would be fairly easy to adapt..
05-07-2018, 10:44 PM
#18
Ok. To the op. For startup you can read up on and play with:
go to idle. Then airflow. Under the startup tab:
startup airfliw initial
friction airflow decay
friction airflow initial
startup air flow delay
i was having an issie where where when I cranked it, it would keep a flared up idle for about 20 seconds each time. I was able to chop it down with these parameters. It starts like my stock 20-7 Silverado. That’s the standard by which I time my car to be like. Probably why I’m never satisfied lol.
go to idle. Then airflow. Under the startup tab:
startup airfliw initial
friction airflow decay
friction airflow initial
startup air flow delay
i was having an issie where where when I cranked it, it would keep a flared up idle for about 20 seconds each time. I was able to chop it down with these parameters. It starts like my stock 20-7 Silverado. That’s the standard by which I time my car to be like. Probably why I’m never satisfied lol.
05-08-2018, 11:47 AM
#20
Ok. To the op. For startup you can read up on and play with:
go to idle. Then airflow. Under the startup tab:
startup airfliw initial
friction airflow decay
friction airflow initial
startup air flow delay
i was having an issie where where when I cranked it, it would keep a flared up idle for about 20 seconds each time. I was able to chop it down with these parameters. It starts like my stock 20-7 Silverado. That’s the standard by which I time my car to be like. Probably why I’m never satisfied lol.
go to idle. Then airflow. Under the startup tab:
startup airfliw initial
friction airflow decay
friction airflow initial
startup air flow delay
i was having an issie where where when I cranked it, it would keep a flared up idle for about 20 seconds each time. I was able to chop it down with these parameters. It starts like my stock 20-7 Silverado. That’s the standard by which I time my car to be like. Probably why I’m never satisfied lol.
Last edited by Monte4ever; 05-08-2018 at 05:49 PM.