Oil pan sucking Dry?
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Oil pan sucking Dry? LS2 engine with all new bearings (including cam), gaskets, rings etc,....Oil pump is 10296 Melling HV with high pressure spring. I went with HV because the block is a hybrid GEN III/IV due to the AFM passages and such, however those are all plugged off. The pan is a standard F-body pan with windage tray. My cold oil pressure is ~75 and hot is >50 at idle. I have a Dakota Digital dash with chirping alarm set for <20 psi oil pressure. When I got down on it the other day, the alarm chirped in both 1st and 2nd gear. I looked at my gages and noticed my oil pressure gage was swinging back from close to zero, back up to 60 psi. I checked oil level, it was up to full mark. Pan is 5 qts. Is it worth the trouble of dropping the pan/timing cover to replace the oil pump? Any drawbacks with just running an extra quart in the pan? Currently running Driven DR30 10W-30 breaking oil. Engine has <3K miles.
Yup, you are sucking it dry with that oil pump setup. I was pretty sure the f-body oil pan was more than that, but it's not uncommon to run a half a quart more to keep it happy under hard acceleration. Put a stock pressure/volume in there and consider putting in a baffle like the improved racing setup.
LS2 engine with all new bearings (including cam), gaskets, rings etc,....Oil pump is 10296 Melling HV with high pressure spring. I went with HV because the block is a hybrid GEN III/IV due to the AFM passages and such, however those are all plugged off. The pan is a standard F-body pan with windage tray. My cold oil pressure is ~75 and hot is >50 at idle. I have a Dakota Digital dash with chirping alarm set for <20 psi oil pressure. When I got down on it the other day, the alarm chirped in both 1st and 2nd gear. I looked at my gages and noticed my oil pressure gage was swinging back from close to zero, back up to 60 psi. I checked oil level, it was up to full mark. Pan is 5 qts. Is it worth the trouble of dropping the pan/timing cover to replace the oil pump? Any drawbacks with just running an extra quart in the pan? Currently running Driven DR30 10W-30 breaking oil. Engine has <3K miles.
I suppose it's possible depending on what pressure is going up to on the relief and anything that goes over the relief channel gets funneled back into the suction stage of the pump which will cut down on what the pickup pulls in. Did you set the pick height to the bottom of the oil pan?
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The pan isn't getting "sucked dry". That DOESN'T happen. Can't. That's a complete MYTH. Don't fall for it.
THIMK: the ONLY oil that makes it out of the pan and up into the rest of the motor, is that which passes through the bearing clearances, lifters, etc. This is TOTALLY dependent on the clearances themselves, and the oil pressure. All of the oil that the pump gears move butt that DOESN'T pass through those places, goes right back to the pickup side of the pump; IOW, the oil that the gears move that's in excess of what the clearances allow to flow, makes a circuit running around INSIDE the pump. It therefore DOES NOT MATTER what the pump's volume capacity is; the ONLY oil that gets past it, is what the clearances allow.
Your problem is the oil running to the back of the pan and uncovering the pickup. You can demonstrate this to yourself by simply adding a bit extra to the crankcase; maybe ½ quart or so, not enough to rise above the level of the tray in the pan, butt enough to help keep the pickup submerged. If this cures, or at least significantly lessens, your problem, then you have your explanation. Either run the slightly higher oil level all the time, or get a pan with better baffling.
THIMK: the ONLY oil that makes it out of the pan and up into the rest of the motor, is that which passes through the bearing clearances, lifters, etc. This is TOTALLY dependent on the clearances themselves, and the oil pressure. All of the oil that the pump gears move butt that DOESN'T pass through those places, goes right back to the pickup side of the pump; IOW, the oil that the gears move that's in excess of what the clearances allow to flow, makes a circuit running around INSIDE the pump. It therefore DOES NOT MATTER what the pump's volume capacity is; the ONLY oil that gets past it, is what the clearances allow.
Your problem is the oil running to the back of the pan and uncovering the pickup. You can demonstrate this to yourself by simply adding a bit extra to the crankcase; maybe ½ quart or so, not enough to rise above the level of the tray in the pan, butt enough to help keep the pickup submerged. If this cures, or at least significantly lessens, your problem, then you have your explanation. Either run the slightly higher oil level all the time, or get a pan with better baffling.
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I suppose it's possible depending on what pressure is going up to on the relief and anything that goes over the relief channel gets funneled back into the suction stage of the pump which will cut down on what the pickup pulls in. Did you set the pick height to the bottom of the oil pan?
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The pan isn't getting "sucked dry". That DOESN'T happen. Can't. That's a complete MYTH. Don't fall for it.
THIMK: the ONLY oil that makes it out of the pan and up into the rest of the motor, is that which passes through the bearing clearances, lifters, etc. This is TOTALLY dependent on the clearances themselves, and the oil pressure. All of the oil that the pump gears move butt that DOESN'T pass through those places, goes right back to the pickup side of the pump; IOW, the oil that the gears move that's in excess of what the clearances allow to flow, makes a circuit running around INSIDE the pump. It therefore DOES NOT MATTER what the pump's volume capacity is; the ONLY oil that gets past it, is what the clearances allow.
Your problem is the oil running to the back of the pan and uncovering the pickup. You can demonstrate this to yourself by simply adding a bit extra to the crankcase; maybe ½ quart or so, not enough to rise above the level of the tray in the pan, butt enough to help keep the pickup submerged. If this cures, or at least significantly lessens, your problem, then you have your explanation. Either run the slightly higher oil level all the time, or get a pan with better baffling.
THIMK: the ONLY oil that makes it out of the pan and up into the rest of the motor, is that which passes through the bearing clearances, lifters, etc. This is TOTALLY dependent on the clearances themselves, and the oil pressure. All of the oil that the pump gears move butt that DOESN'T pass through those places, goes right back to the pickup side of the pump; IOW, the oil that the gears move that's in excess of what the clearances allow to flow, makes a circuit running around INSIDE the pump. It therefore DOES NOT MATTER what the pump's volume capacity is; the ONLY oil that gets past it, is what the clearances allow.
Your problem is the oil running to the back of the pan and uncovering the pickup. You can demonstrate this to yourself by simply adding a bit extra to the crankcase; maybe ½ quart or so, not enough to rise above the level of the tray in the pan, butt enough to help keep the pickup submerged. If this cures, or at least significantly lessens, your problem, then you have your explanation. Either run the slightly higher oil level all the time, or get a pan with better baffling.
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
If your pickup is that close to the pan floor, you may want to move it up. The thickness of a gasket is not enough. Not to mention, a 10296 pump is overkill unless you've got bigger bearing clearances than stock. Removing the DOD/ VVT drops the oil volume requirements considerably. The F-body pan is notorious for having the oil slosh away from the pickup, so yes, that is likely your issue.
LOL wut? It's literally moving all of the oil up to the top of the engine and it's not returning fast enough with that oil pump on there. **** it happens even on dry sump setups with enough pressure.
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It's literally moving all of the oil up to the top of the engine and it's not returning fast enough with that oil pump on there
it happens even on dry sump setups with enough pressure
Those are the KEY words. Has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO with "volume". Only PRESSURE. (and of course clearances)
this is just as likely to happen with a standard volume pump and it's just due to the oil stacking in the rear of the pan
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From: Bradentucky Florida
Smokey Yunick proved an oil pump can't cause a pan to be sucked dry almost 70 years ago
He did prove that oil hitting your crank turns into foam and foam doesn't pump.
Additionally, you need 3/8" between the pan and pickup
He did prove that oil hitting your crank turns into foam and foam doesn't pump.
Additionally, you need 3/8" between the pan and pickup
I build a fair amount of engines, and I use the 10296…ported nonetheless…pump in almost all of my performance stuff. It’s absolutely not sucking the pan dry. That cannot happen, especially with the Gen3,4,5 and now 6 platforms. The oil drainback holes in the heads are massive. What you are experiencing here is pretty typical with the FBody pan, and that’s the lack of oil control. You need the Improved Racing baffle. Don’t be afraid to run 7 quarts if you need to…LOTS of guys run 7 quarts with that particular pan. As mentioned, your pickup to pan clearance needs to be .275 to .375.
LMAO you guys are being a bit ridiculous with how literal you are taking what I'm saying don't you think? I didn't expect to have to explain what I mean by sucking the pan dry but I guess this is how forums go now a days....
The oil pump has no more oil to pick up which is causing your pressure drop, AKA it's dry in the pan where the pickup tube is. The oil is in every other location, except where it needs to be and running high volume high pressure pumps can make this worse. It happens in f-body oil pans a lot due to the pickup location and terrible baffling, BUT it happens in plenty of others as well as dry sump systems with high pressures. I've literally watched a dry sump setup on a GenIV LS and GenV LT put enough oil up into the tops of the heads and block to starve itself at the end of a 1/4 mile rip, a wet sump LS would have starved itself in a 1/10th of the time at the 60ft. Running less pressure and running restricted pushrods was the only thing to keep it from having the issue at 8000 rpms.
Now this is where you guys can complain about the pickup technically still having an oil film on it so it's not really "dry".
The oil pump has no more oil to pick up which is causing your pressure drop, AKA it's dry in the pan where the pickup tube is. The oil is in every other location, except where it needs to be and running high volume high pressure pumps can make this worse. It happens in f-body oil pans a lot due to the pickup location and terrible baffling, BUT it happens in plenty of others as well as dry sump systems with high pressures. I've literally watched a dry sump setup on a GenIV LS and GenV LT put enough oil up into the tops of the heads and block to starve itself at the end of a 1/4 mile rip, a wet sump LS would have starved itself in a 1/10th of the time at the 60ft. Running less pressure and running restricted pushrods was the only thing to keep it from having the issue at 8000 rpms.
Now this is where you guys can complain about the pickup technically still having an oil film on it so it's not really "dry".
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explain what I mean by sucking the pan dry
To me, a native speaker of English, it would mean, pumping all the oil out of the pan ("suck"), and putting it someplace else, such that there's none left in the pan ("dry"). IOW, the MYTH. Which of course, is the thing we're all telling you is IMPOSSIBLE to happen, if thought to be based on the cause being, the pump's "volume" rating. Sure, it's POSSIBLE for a pan to be "sucked dry"; sure, it HAS happened; sure, it can happen again; butt NOT because of a "high volume" pump. For OTHER reasons, yeah, maybe; for THAT reason, no. Similarly, it's POSSIBLE, and well and widely known to happen, that a STOCK pan can be inadequately baffled for uses beyond the intended design of said STOCK engine, such that the oil all runs away from the pickup; which does NOT fit the definition of "suck dry". The pan isn't "dry" in that situation; there's still plenty of oil in there; it's just no longer available to the pickup. That's something else altogether besides "suck dry".
So please "explain". I'm sure we'd all find it interesting and informative, one way or another.
The pan isn't getting "sucked dry". That DOESN'T happen. Can't. That's a complete MYTH. Don't fall for it.
THIMK: the ONLY oil that makes it out of the pan and up into the rest of the motor, is that which passes through the bearing clearances, lifters, etc. This is TOTALLY dependent on the clearances themselves, and the oil pressure. All of the oil that the pump gears move butt that DOESN'T pass through those places, goes right back to the pickup side of the pump; IOW, the oil that the gears move that's in excess of what the clearances allow to flow, makes a circuit running around INSIDE the pump. It therefore DOES NOT MATTER what the pump's volume capacity is; the ONLY oil that gets past it, is what the clearances allow.
Your problem is the oil running to the back of the pan and uncovering the pickup. You can demonstrate this to yourself by simply adding a bit extra to the crankcase; maybe ½ quart or so, not enough to rise above the level of the tray in the pan, butt enough to help keep the pickup submerged. If this cures, or at least significantly lessens, your problem, then you have your explanation. Either run the slightly higher oil level all the time, or get a pan with better baffling.
THIMK: the ONLY oil that makes it out of the pan and up into the rest of the motor, is that which passes through the bearing clearances, lifters, etc. This is TOTALLY dependent on the clearances themselves, and the oil pressure. All of the oil that the pump gears move butt that DOESN'T pass through those places, goes right back to the pickup side of the pump; IOW, the oil that the gears move that's in excess of what the clearances allow to flow, makes a circuit running around INSIDE the pump. It therefore DOES NOT MATTER what the pump's volume capacity is; the ONLY oil that gets past it, is what the clearances allow.
Your problem is the oil running to the back of the pan and uncovering the pickup. You can demonstrate this to yourself by simply adding a bit extra to the crankcase; maybe ½ quart or so, not enough to rise above the level of the tray in the pan, butt enough to help keep the pickup submerged. If this cures, or at least significantly lessens, your problem, then you have your explanation. Either run the slightly higher oil level all the time, or get a pan with better baffling.
Last edited by grinder11; Mar 28, 2026 at 03:51 PM.
Fbody pan and 10296 pump will work together as long as you have enough pan to pickup tube clearance. I think inadequate pan to pick up tube clearance was the issue from the get go and you just wasn't get enough oil into the pickup tube under hard acceleration.
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
I just pulled my engine with starvation problems and my pan to pickup was .352". Nothing but the factory baffle. I'm pretty certain it was due to oil sloshing away from the pickup, the pickup clearance was adequate.
The trap door baffle from Improved Racing may get the job done but I had one of those installed in the Fbody pan when I was having similar issues to what OP was having. My pick up tube to pan clearance was 0.25 which wasn't enough for the 10296 pump in the LSX engine. My solution was to get a better pan with higher oil capacity that came with a full windage tray and no baffle.