BBC vs LSx 454ci......N/A
12-27-2008, 11:22 AM
#43
You can buy ZZ502s -Carb to oil pan for about $7500 BRAND NEW all day long. Only 502 HP BUT LOOK at the TORQUE!!! OVER 500ft/lbs from 2500RPM to 5500RPM!!! And that's w/ the wimpy cam it comes with.
And for a few grand more you can get fuel injection-right out of the crate.
250lbs? I think you need to look again- BBC w/ Aluminum heads are weighing in around 565lbs FULLY dressed. The BBC bare block only weighs about 30-40lbs more than a LSX block- and you can get a lot more cubes out of them. (About 582 w/ a 9.8 deck- well over 600 w/ a tall deck)
They used to paint BBC w/ lead paint....maybe I've chewed on a few too many....
Richard
And for a few grand more you can get fuel injection-right out of the crate.
250lbs? I think you need to look again- BBC w/ Aluminum heads are weighing in around 565lbs FULLY dressed. The BBC bare block only weighs about 30-40lbs more than a LSX block- and you can get a lot more cubes out of them. (About 582 w/ a 9.8 deck- well over 600 w/ a tall deck)
They used to paint BBC w/ lead paint....maybe I've chewed on a few too many....
Richard
You can also spend the money for a BBC aluminum block and I BET it will weigh the same as a LSX motor. Turn key vs Turn key. At the very least it would be under 500 pounds pretty easy.
12-27-2008, 11:28 AM
#44
So for example, the Bischoff 582ci BBC that makes 1,000 fwhp and 850 ft. lbs. on an engine dyno.......will make about 930-945 RWHP through a 4L80E tranny or a TH400??????
582ci BBC by Bischoff: $14,000 complete engine.
http://www.besracing.com/582-special-crate-engines.html
582ci BBC by Bischoff: $14,000 complete engine.
http://www.besracing.com/582-special-crate-engines.html
12-27-2008, 11:31 AM
#45
Agreed, a production block will handle like 1,000hp.
If we are really talking money aside compare a fully aftermarket BBC to a fully built LSX motor.
Do you know how many BBC's are in the 8's on motor? How many of them are STREETABLE!!!?? The cars posted above are purpose built N/A motors. Take those same BBC's and hit them with a 300 shot and see what happens.
Build one with a blower/turbo, a few in the 7's, a few broke into the 6's or will. A ton of blower/turbo BBC's in the 6's.
Im not bashing the LSX at all but it has a long way to go and even then it will allways be held back by CUI.
Even with heads flowing 400CFM with the CUI loss compared the the BBC you have to spin the motor a lot faster.
The larger BBC's that are built right tend to have plenty of power way before WOT.
To many people think that they BBC's weigh a metric ton but when you compare the weights if you ask me Id rather have an extra 60 pounds or so and a lot more CUI.
12-27-2008, 12:27 PM
#47
One of the cars i mentioned has a ls2 block and that's just a few i can think of that run 8's, and no it doesnt' take a canted valve Ls head to flow over 400 cfm. And Robin L. motor is a Nitrous motor. And please show me one Production block BBC in the 8's all motor that is streetable?
12-27-2008, 12:27 PM
#48
Well, I've contacted Bischoff, we'll see what he recommends for this project. I like his 582ci complete engine from top to bottom, with 1,000 hp and 850 ft. lbs., only $14,000. Add a dual stage 500 (250/250) and that'll be pretty sweet. All cheaper than a turbo LSX build. It will be an automatic tranny, it will only be a street car with show car quality, and highway pulls and weekend fun. If not, big single turbo LSX iron it is. Already have the LSX block waiting and a brand new built 4L80E and a 12 bolt Strange, suspension is pretty good, wanna mini-tub the rear and add some nice brakes. I have Bears all around but I want some Wilwoods. Some extra weight up front is pretty much meaningless to me since I'm not drag racing or road racing, power is all I want, and something unique.
Just have to find someone that can do the install, I sure can't.
Just have to find someone that can do the install, I sure can't.
12-27-2008, 02:49 PM
#50
So really, there is no comparison between the 3 cars you mentioned above and a production BBC.
Just to step it up ALOT without stepping up the cost of a badass BBC. The Bischoff 582ci custom built BBC makes 1,000 hp and 850 lb.....$14,000 complete engine. So really, the LSx is light years away from BBC possibilities, and will actually never ever come close to them.
12-27-2008, 03:38 PM
#51
One of the cars i mentioned has a ls2 block and that's just a few i can think of that run 8's, and no it doesnt' take a canted valve Ls head to flow over 400 cfm. And Robin L. motor is a Nitrous motor. And please show me one Production block BBC in the 8's all motor that is streetable?
But that production BBC will last for years and years and cost under $15,000, those LSX's are running on the ragged edge and their cost is probably 3-4 times what a BBC will cost. Plus they sure can't be driven every day on "pump gas", they need pure race gas and crazy compression with crazy cams. Completely unfriendly to drive on the street.
So really, there is no comparison between the 3 cars you mentioned above and a production BBC.
Just to step it up ALOT without stepping up the cost of a badass BBC. The Bischoff 582ci custom built BBC makes 1,000 hp and 850 lb.....$14,000 complete engine. So really, the LSx is light years away from BBC possibilities, and will actually never ever come close to them.
So really, there is no comparison between the 3 cars you mentioned above and a production BBC.
Just to step it up ALOT without stepping up the cost of a badass BBC. The Bischoff 582ci custom built BBC makes 1,000 hp and 850 lb.....$14,000 complete engine. So really, the LSx is light years away from BBC possibilities, and will actually never ever come close to them.
Like I said, I had factory rods, crank, 2 bolt main with factory bolts in the bottom end and mains, forged pistons and it lasted 15k-20k miles with at leasthigh 5XX to the wheels and a 300 shot on top of that. Old carb, old 636 lift flat tappet cam, old ignition, old small aluminum heads, old aluminum intake ect ect. Tore the motor down and the bearings looked great. I drove that car as much as I could, never got hot. Oh and 10.5:1 compression. Car almost went 9's on a 150 shot.
Plenty of guys with a 540 and like 325 heads runing deep 9's all motor on the street before the bottle and last a really long time.
Comparing a LSX to a BBC in any aspect is a joke, even the weight is not much different.
Come on man.
12-27-2008, 04:41 PM
#52
You guys are pretty funny, after market big block heads from the 1980's outflowed all but the exotic LSX heads. Dart big chiefs, brodix big dukes, old BBC race heads can be found for some really good deals from time to time on ebay. Hell most BBC intake runner sizes flow more than LSX heads. I'm not saying they are more efficient by any means but you can make some big easy reliable power. Check out racingjunk.com for some awesome deals out there. Doesn't take much for an 8 second door car; 540, ported brodix heads (conventional style not exotic angle), high compression, 1050 dominator dart brodix intake, .750" solid roller cam. Thats an 8-900hp setup that you could build pretty cheap. Not saying that would be real fun on streets but you have an idea on how easy it is to go fast. Or if you wanted throw a turbo on an aluminum headed bbc and no one will ever touch you.
12-27-2008, 07:04 PM
#54
It was just an example, BUT, the first CC pump gas drags was won in a heavy *** chevelle with a big block and a 4 speed manual, went high 8s on the dope in a heavy *** ride. Not bad for a stick, the guy said he got tired of destroying automatics.
12-28-2008, 04:42 PM
#55
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For the $, the BBC appears to hold a real edge if you are looking for lots of horsepower. I would recommend looking at a 540 or 582 versus a 598, the low deck block makes the package a little smaller. Lots of good companies selling crate versions - most cost less than a GM LS7 and make lots more hp & torque.
Not to be outdone, if you have unlimited $ go with the 5 inch bore center BBC - can get around 750 CID here.
Curious what mods would be needed to fit one into a Gen IV car? They fit nicely in Gen I.
Not to be outdone, if you have unlimited $ go with the 5 inch bore center BBC - can get around 750 CID here.
Curious what mods would be needed to fit one into a Gen IV car? They fit nicely in Gen I.
12-29-2008, 03:02 PM
#56
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Okinawa, Japan/Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love a good bbc vs lsx argument, first of all when i said an lsx weighs a few hundred pounds less than a bbc i should of clarified that i meant an aluminum block motor. Second of all a 454 bbc will NEVER make more power than a 454lsx when both are built properly!!! The only advantage a BBC has is cubes, but who cares about cubes when i can build a smaller cube motor and put a power adder on? A buddy of mine just recently made 548whp with a nicely setup 496, he gets 10-12mpg and spent about 6k on his build. I am building a ls3 right now which will be cam-only and will put down somewhere around 520-540whp and also weighs 250lbs less than his bbc, I also intend to get 20+mpg. I am spending about 5k on the motor build, who made the smarter choice? My car will drag his all day long and do it without using 8.1L but 6.2l instead. For all out power with no concern for streetability or gas mileage, the bbc is a better choice but if you want a lightweight motor with awesome street manners then the LSX will dominate every time. Oh and when i say LSX I dont always mean the actual GM LSX block, its just a nice way to say the whole GM LS family without listing them all or being specific,
12-29-2008, 03:17 PM
#57
I love a good bbc vs lsx argument, first of all when i said an lsx weighs a few hundred pounds less than a bbc i should of clarified that i meant an aluminum block motor. Second of all a 454 bbc will NEVER make more power than a 454lsx when both are built properly!!! The only advantage a BBC has is cubes, but who cares about cubes when i can build a smaller cube motor and put a power adder on? A buddy of mine just recently made 548whp with a nicely setup 496, he gets 10-12mpg and spent about 6k on his build. I am building a ls3 right now which will be cam-only and will put down somewhere around 520-540whp and also weighs 250lbs less than his bbc, I also intend to get 20+mpg. I am spending about 5k on the motor build, who made the smarter choice? My car will drag his all day long and do it without using 8.1L but 6.2l instead. For all out power with no concern for streetability or gas mileage, the bbc is a better choice but if you want a lightweight motor with awesome street manners then the LSX will dominate every time. Oh and when i say LSX I dont always mean the actual GM LSX block, its just a nice way to say the whole GM LS family without listing them all or being specific,
And for your friends 496ci, thats very low on power.
I didn't realize you could just change a cam on an LS3 engine and make 540 RWHP. Is that what you meantby cam-only?
12-29-2008, 07:31 PM
#58
On The Tree
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love a good bbc vs lsx argument, first of all when i said an lsx weighs a few hundred pounds less than a bbc i should of clarified that i meant an aluminum block motor. Second of all a 454 bbc will NEVER make more power than a 454lsx when both are built properly!!! The only advantage a BBC has is cubes, but who cares about cubes when i can build a smaller cube motor and put a power adder on? A buddy of mine just recently made 548whp with a nicely setup 496, he gets 10-12mpg and spent about 6k on his build. I am building a ls3 right now which will be cam-only and will put down somewhere around 520-540whp and also weighs 250lbs less than his bbc, I also intend to get 20+mpg. I am spending about 5k on the motor build, who made the smarter choice? My car will drag his all day long and do it without using 8.1L but 6.2l instead. For all out power with no concern for streetability or gas mileage, the bbc is a better choice but if you want a lightweight motor with awesome street manners then the LSX will dominate every time. Oh and when i say LSX I dont always mean the actual GM LSX block, its just a nice way to say the whole GM LS family without listing them all or being specific,
No replacement for displacement.
12-29-2008, 07:59 PM
#59
I love a good bbc vs lsx argument, first of all when i said an lsx weighs a few hundred pounds less than a bbc i should of clarified that i meant an aluminum block motor. Second of all a 454 bbc will NEVER make more power than a 454lsx when both are built properly!!! The only advantage a BBC has is cubes, but who cares about cubes when i can build a smaller cube motor and put a power adder on? A buddy of mine just recently made 548whp with a nicely setup 496, he gets 10-12mpg and spent about 6k on his build. I am building a ls3 right now which will be cam-only and will put down somewhere around 520-540whp and also weighs 250lbs less than his bbc, I also intend to get 20+mpg. I am spending about 5k on the motor build, who made the smarter choice? My car will drag his all day long and do it without using 8.1L but 6.2l instead. For all out power with no concern for streetability or gas mileage, the bbc is a better choice but if you want a lightweight motor with awesome street manners then the LSX will dominate every time. Oh and when i say LSX I dont always mean the actual GM LSX block, its just a nice way to say the whole GM LS family without listing them all or being specific,
You can intend on walking on the moon, but you haven't done it until you've done it. Your friend's BBC has a damn good chance of raping your "cam only" LS3. At the same peak hp, that BBC is gonna make WAY more overall power, turn less RPM, and have better street manners with a properly tuned carburetor mainly because of the 100+ cubic inches he has over you. As long as that BBC isn't in a boat or a heavy *** truck, you're probably gonna get prison raped...bad.
12-29-2008, 08:37 PM
#60
I love a good bbc vs lsx argument, first of all when i said an lsx weighs a few hundred pounds less than a bbc i should of clarified that i meant an aluminum block motor. Second of all a 454 bbc will NEVER make more power than a 454lsx when both are built properly!!! The only advantage a BBC has is cubes, but who cares about cubes when i can build a smaller cube motor and put a power adder on? A buddy of mine just recently made 548whp with a nicely setup 496, he gets 10-12mpg and spent about 6k on his build. I am building a ls3 right now which will be cam-only and will put down somewhere around 520-540whp and also weighs 250lbs less than his bbc, I also intend to get 20+mpg. I am spending about 5k on the motor build, who made the smarter choice? My car will drag his all day long and do it without using 8.1L but 6.2l instead. For all out power with no concern for streetability or gas mileage, the bbc is a better choice but if you want a lightweight motor with awesome street manners then the LSX will dominate every time. Oh and when i say LSX I dont always mean the actual GM LSX block, its just a nice way to say the whole GM LS family without listing them all or being specific,
Sorry to say Jeremy, but WTF do you know, honestly, you built(have had built) SBC, from MY experience, not to mention ABOVE stated in this post, the BORE alone is bigger on a BBC, MEANING=BIGGER VALVES=MORE FLOW=MORE POWER. A LSX block cannot be had at a fraction of the price a BBC out of a old *** wreck.
As for you buddies RWHP #s, how the hell can you group that into all 496 engines? A 496 EASILY makes 600 HP, then the big stuff coes into play and 700 HP is made, that is 620-640 RWHP easily, then there is solid roller and full out race with 12 to 1 compression (yes, a big block can do it on pump gas) and you have 800 HP at the flywheel. Still can be driven on the street. So that is 730ish RWHP on motor at the gas pump.
Hope this post doesnt **** you off but DAMN you are in the wrong.