AutoRoc

It was just an example of a complete build because we were throwing darts in the dark. Maybe Bischoff or Uratchko is a better name to recommend since I've seen their stuff up close more often....yes you pay for a name every now and then.

capn smokey

iTrader: (1)

Whoa I dont need 750fwhp to make 600whp, I have a Viper spec T-56 and a 12-bolt. I think Ill only lose 60-80hp through the drivetrain, thats about what it ate up with my old setup. I wanna see some SBC builds that make 650-700fwhp so I can decide if its worth it, Ive seen alot of 383s make 600fwhp without all kinds of exotic parts so i dont see why a 434-454 couldnt do 50-100hp better. I know its a tall order, especially on pump gas but I think it can be done. If you guys can prove it to be impractical then ill just stick with my original plan of doing a BBC.

82 camaro

Yes you see alot of avertised 600HP combos in magazines thay seem to be geard toward sales and may fudge the #s. How fast are you trying to go and with what weight and body style? My 640HP motor is a guess from weight and mph in the 1/4 the car is 3400lbs and will run 135-136mph this is thru a turbo 400 and a 9''. Remember this you dont race dynos you race on the track. What may be 500hp on one dyno can be 650hp on another this goes for eng or wheel dynos.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

Yep, dynos are for tuning, you tell real power thru the MPH of the run.


Just think though, a open front end engine will make power beyond the accessory drive, so losing 80 HP is not rare, even more some times, i see you losing 70 minimum to the ground Jeremy.

AutoRoc

I re-read and see that you want a sleeper, pump gas engine that goes 9.0's right off the street. You're wanting 800-850rwhp on hose with pump gas... Also..."Ive seen 434s do 650-700fwhp with a real nice setup"...post up that setup and then build it so we can see it...

Good to hear it's a T56/12 bolt but now I'm hearing that it's pump gas with accessory drives all over it for the street...you better shoot for 750fwhp because it's getting ate up really fast before getting to the ground. I'd figure 15% loss from the drivetrain and maybe another few percent from acc. drive, not just a set 60-80hp because your old setup did that. Acc. drive can eat a good amount of power.

Bischoff has a trick sbc that sounds right for you...it is his combo for the Engine Masters Challenge.. 434cid, 675hp, pump gas. 15K to your door roughly.

http://www.besracing.com/434-engine-...nge-motor.html


As far as 250hp jetting on pump gas...I'd TRY it if there was a $20,000 prize on the line...otherwise I would never risk running pump gas. Goodluck!

slammer454

This is why I posted my buddies setup above, his motor is built for nitrous but it is not street friendly at all. As for the pump gas thing, why not just spray it with a standalone and a separate fuel cell.

capn smokey

iTrader: (1)

yeah this is starting to seem a lil implausible the more i think about it. Oh and i wont have many accessories, just an alternator, No ps, no a/c, an ewp, and an electric fan. I wanna trap 140+ and do it on pump gas with decent street manners, I guess Ill just have to do a BBC. Oh well there goes the sleeper idea, when you pop the hood and ppl see a BBC on the hose then they know what they are dealing with. But im not gonna sacrifice performance just to be sneaky. Thanks for talking me outta this idea guys, it just seemed so good when i first thought of it but it was just a pipe dream i guess.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

It is pretty much set, a T56 and 12 bolt will allways east up the same amount of power, in the same area that is, a 300 HP motor that dynos 210 to the back wheels will be a 500 HP motor dynoing about 410 to the back wheels on the same dyno.

capn smokey

iTrader: (1)

Agreed Zane but most ppl dont think that way, everyone seems to be stuck on that retarted percentage argument.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

It happens.

AutoRoc

Maybe just paint it various shades of black, toss a little dust on it, etc... People might think.."No way a dusty flat black motor's gonna run hard"... ok sorry to step on your idea.

And 140mph trap speed is a LOT slower than 9.0's in the 1/4 mile. My crap combo could probably do that(140) with conservative timing, pump gas, and a 200 shot. It does it now with VP113 and optimal timing. 9.0's would be closer to 155 trap speed. A friend of mine goes 9.0's @ 155 in a thirdgen. it's a 23 degree dart head, 427sbc with 2 stages. 350 hit total. Very high compression, auto trans, 3200lbs. Numbers and toys...who doesn't love em..

And give me a call when your theory stands and a 1000hp engine puts 920 to the tires. We'll celebrate your 8% drivetrain loss

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

You really think that a 500 FWHP motor that loses 100 HP to the back tires would be 200 FWHP loss with a 1000 HP motor? I see it go from 60-120 HP loss to the ground, but every dyno is different, and being able to go from engine dyno to chassis dyno is not going to be as accurate as we like. There is no specific percentage, a T56 and a moser 12 bolt and accessory drive eating 85 HP to the ground will eat 85 HP to the ground no matter what engine is in front of it as log as the engine makes torque, now a 4 cyl in front of the drive line that is 200 HP will lose more due to torque, but it will close with bigger engines in general, if you make **** tons of more torque(like a big block), then technically you should lose a bit less. You have to make torque to make HP.

chvypwr31

iTrader: (4)

my set up 383 sbc, h beam rods,12.4:1 cr, full ported brodix 11x heads flow 340 cfm ,ported brodix intake,not sure on cam yet or carb,vacuum pump,1.6 rockers,all goin through a pg with about a 5k stall through a 9 inch.about a 250 shot. low 9s

capn smokey

iTrader: (1)

Uhh, you run bottom 10s@133, dont you think 10mph more trap speed could shave a second off? I said 140+, I trapped 130ish beforeand that got boring and only took about 550hp to do. 800-900hp should put me over 150 and I really dont care much about having lopsided ets, its a street car. I dont care if i run 11s@155mph, lol, Ill still be draggin ppl on the highway and thats the whole reason I have a third gen. I think Im going BBC though at this point. Theres really no feasible way to accomplish my goals with a SBC.

xx_ED_xx

iTrader: (17)

Agreed and you wont have to turn it as hard. Going BBC as well and I want all my damn accessories. Because I want to drive the car.

Nostang

iTrader: (4)

Good real world link on drivetrain losses.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...t=53126&page=2

You would need about 700-720 horsepower with a t56 and 12 bolt to net 600rwhp. A 434 with nascar style 18 degree heads, single plane intake, shaft rockers and a big solid roller would do it. It would be on the ragged edge of streetability but still able to be a decent weekend driver. Figure about $15 for the build without engine management or tranny mods,etc. 600rwhp with a 6 speed NA combo would net you ~137-138mph in the quarter with a 3600lb car.

If you want to go fast NA and keep it streetable you need to step up to a big block (540ci with 11.5 compression, good heads/ intake would get you an easy 800-850chp on pump gas). You could get 145 mph traps but you had better get a built t56 in order for it to hold. This combo build would prob run you around $12-13k less extras.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

Still, a big block doesnt need to have all the compression, with 10 to 1 you will have less detonation to worry about with nitrous.

slammer454

as stated above, My buddies combo which is pretty much that at 15:1, doesn't like the street, at all. it's in a C4 Corvette weighing in at 3200, and does 10.40's on motor at around 138-140. Spray he's doing 9.20's, but don't know the trap.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

15 to 1 is not "street" at all, if it doesnt run on 93 octane it is not street.

slammer454

I'm simply trying to show what it took for him to get that kind of power out of the small block.