305 sbc...
OP must be the biggest ******* expert on 305s, and cars in general at that, in the world!!!
I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.
Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.
I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.
Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.
Now don't get all pissy either thinking i'm bashing you. it's just smarter to go with the 350.
If i was gonna turbo a honda i would much rather boost a K20A2 then a B16A. bigger, stronger crank/rods, ect.
If i was gonna turbo a honda i would much rather boost a K20A2 then a B16A. bigger, stronger crank/rods, ect.
I mentioned a turbo in the opening post...why would you talk naturally aspirated?
No, YOU are not comprehending very well. This is intended for a street car. I've said this three times now? Maybe four? I don't think there is enough of a difference to make any significant impact! They both have advantages, and disadvantages. In the end, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, bolt for bolt, I don't think there is enough of a difference to make either better or worse! By the time you get to a point where the 350 is THAT much more powerful, or the 305 is THAT much less unreliable, it's beyond the scope of a streetcar.
You have this narrow minded thought process that tells you small bore = bad! You probably still think you can see a engine's A/F ratio with EGT's! That was a common misconception rampant 20-30 years ago, and it still is today, even though there are tremendous volumes of information out there to prove otherwise. Remeber what I said, "reason may mislead us."
IT CAN! Look at the 360ci NMRA Hot Street motors. They're making well over 800hp on the engine dyno. That's close to double that of what your average 400+ci motors make, and even more than a lot of 470-500ci Big Blocks. I said this before, and I'll say it again...it all depends.
No, YOU are not comprehending very well. This is intended for a street car. I've said this three times now? Maybe four? I don't think there is enough of a difference to make any significant impact! They both have advantages, and disadvantages. In the end, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, bolt for bolt, I don't think there is enough of a difference to make either better or worse! By the time you get to a point where the 350 is THAT much more powerful, or the 305 is THAT much less unreliable, it's beyond the scope of a streetcar.
You have this narrow minded thought process that tells you small bore = bad! You probably still think you can see a engine's A/F ratio with EGT's! That was a common misconception rampant 20-30 years ago, and it still is today, even though there are tremendous volumes of information out there to prove otherwise. Remeber what I said, "reason may mislead us."
IT CAN! Look at the 360ci NMRA Hot Street motors. They're making well over 800hp on the engine dyno. That's close to double that of what your average 400+ci motors make, and even more than a lot of 470-500ci Big Blocks. I said this before, and I'll say it again...it all depends.
A 305 is not as reliable when the ci is concerned since more boost is usually required to make the same power, wearing more on parts. Just how i am looking at it, that is what i comprehend.
NEVER DID I MENTION SMALL BORE BEING BAD A 350 has a smaller bore than a 400, i am no nocking it.
A for comparing a small motor making as much as a bigger motor like NMRA, it is because the smaller motor is spinning more RPM, yes, RPM makes more power if the induction supports it. You dont see a honda civic making 500 HP at 5500 RPM on motor, no matter how you slice it.
We seriously need to meet up and speak face to face, we are on different pages. I dont know as much about boosted application as i do N2O and NA. Allot of what i know comes from building NA/nitrous motors.
As far as boost, i have never sen a smallr motor make more power with the same mods, YES, a smaller motor can make more power than a bigger bubed motor if they are not on the same field, 30 lbs of boost on a 305 should make more than a 350 on 15. That is how i am understanding what you are saying, am i right?
Exactly.
I think this would be interesting as a 305 will run forever as long as you take care of them. My old thirdgen had 211,000 on it and still ran strong. Now when it comes to boost doesn't a 305 use the same crank and rods as a 350? Same stroke correct? Most stock 305's also run around 8.5:1 compression too correct? Boost friendly compression stock for the most part. I've never seen a bad *** 305 but I'd be open to the possibility however if it was me I'd just build a 350. My 305 in my truck won't pull a dead ***** out of bed and it's mildly built. They just don't make the torque the larger cubed motors make. Anyway.......... continue conversation...........
305 uses shorter rods.
Same stroke.
There was a car craft in and out list i remember from a while back, something like:
In: GM has produced over millions of 350s over the years that can be had for next to nothing.
Out: There is some guy out there rebuilding a 305.
TECH Resident
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 814
Likes: 0
From: Champaign IL
Exactly.
****, my 94 GMC 350 has 280k miles, no smoke and runs like new.
305 uses shorter rods.
Same stroke.
There was a car craft in and out list i remember from a while back, something like:
In: GM has produced over millions of 350s over the years that can be had for next to nothing.
Out: There is some guy out there rebuilding a 305.
****, my 94 GMC 350 has 280k miles, no smoke and runs like new.
305 uses shorter rods.
Same stroke.
There was a car craft in and out list i remember from a while back, something like:
In: GM has produced over millions of 350s over the years that can be had for next to nothing.
Out: There is some guy out there rebuilding a 305.
OP must be the biggest ******* expert on 305s, and cars in general at that, in the world!!!
I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.
Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.
I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.
Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.
Agreed x 2
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I remember a while back Hotrod magazine did a dyno shootout between two motors of about the same size, one was a large bore short stroke motor the other was a long stroke small bore. Both motors made almost identical horse power and torque numbers. I'll dig around and see if I can find that article.
Also check out Hotrod's pump gas drags or their Dragweek and see the motors those guys are running. Some of the smaller motors are out running the bigger ones, it all has to do with your combo and making sure it all works together.
Build that 305 and shut some of these people up.
Also check out Hotrod's pump gas drags or their Dragweek and see the motors those guys are running. Some of the smaller motors are out running the bigger ones, it all has to do with your combo and making sure it all works together.
Build that 305 and shut some of these people up.
OP must be the biggest ******* expert on 305s, and cars in general at that, in the world!!!
I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.
Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.
I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.
Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.
Alright, i am sorry you did not understand my first post, i was speaking of NA, i understand your speaking of boost. My original post was on NA terms.
A 305 is not as reliable when the ci is concerned since more boost is usually required to make the same power, wearing more on parts. Just how i am looking at it, that is what i comprehend
NEVER DID I MENTION SMALL BORE BEING BAD A 350 has a smaller bore than a 400, i am no nocking it.
A 305 is not as reliable when the ci is concerned since more boost is usually required to make the same power, wearing more on parts. Just how i am looking at it, that is what i comprehend
NEVER DID I MENTION SMALL BORE BEING BAD A 350 has a smaller bore than a 400, i am no nocking it.
A for comparing a small motor making as much as a bigger motor like NMRA, it is because the smaller motor is spinning more RPM, yes, RPM makes more power if the induction supports it. You dont see a honda civic making 500 HP at 5500 RPM on motor, no matter how you slice it.
We seriously need to meet up and speak face to face, we are on different pages. I dont know as much about boosted application as i do N2O and NA. Allot of what i know comes from building NA/nitrous motors.
We seriously need to meet up and speak face to face, we are on different pages. I dont know as much about boosted application as i do N2O and NA. Allot of what i know comes from building NA/nitrous motors.
As far as boost, i have never sen a smallr motor make more power with the same mods, YES, a smaller motor can make more power than a bigger bubed motor if they are not on the same field, 30 lbs of boost on a 305 should make more than a 350 on 15. That is how i am understanding what you are saying, am i right?
My hypothesis would be that if I built a 383ci motor and a 333ci motor, both 10:1 CR, same turbos, both ran 93 octane, the power output would be close. VERY close. While the 383 has an advantage of 50ci, it will detonate sooner than the 333. I think that the difference would be enough to upset that displacement advantage.
Hell, if someone GAVE me the 305, there's your winner right there.
So you dont think the extra 50 cubes makes sense to have for a aggressive street machine on boost? I mean, even if a 350 is more prone to detonate, you do not exactly have to push it as hard with as much boost anyways though right?
Now i would like to see a comparo of this nature not for the HP, but to see what the torque difference would be.
Now, i have sprayed a stock 305 roller motor with a 200 shot for a long time till the fuel pup went bad, and i am sure you can figure out what happened from there...
I wont even build a 350 when it is the same price to build a 383, and honestly, the 396 kits are getting cheaper by the day.
Now i would like to see a comparo of this nature not for the HP, but to see what the torque difference would be.
Now, i have sprayed a stock 305 roller motor with a 200 shot for a long time till the fuel pup went bad, and i am sure you can figure out what happened from there...
I wont even build a 350 when it is the same price to build a 383, and honestly, the 396 kits are getting cheaper by the day.
So you dont think the extra 50 cubes makes sense to have for a aggressive street machine on boost? I mean, even if a 350 is more prone to detonate, you do not exactly have to push it as hard with as much boost anyways though right?
Now i would like to see a comparo of this nature not for the HP, but to see what the torque difference would be.
Now, i have sprayed a stock 305 roller motor with a 200 shot for a long time till the fuel pup went bad, and i am sure you can figure out what happened from there...
I wont even build a 350 when it is the same price to build a 383, and honestly, the 396 kits are getting cheaper by the day.
Now i would like to see a comparo of this nature not for the HP, but to see what the torque difference would be.
Now, i have sprayed a stock 305 roller motor with a 200 shot for a long time till the fuel pup went bad, and i am sure you can figure out what happened from there...
I wont even build a 350 when it is the same price to build a 383, and honestly, the 396 kits are getting cheaper by the day.
In the grande scheme of things, it really doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference. Just compare the mod motors and the LSx stuff. It seems like there really isn't that much of a power difference. Plenty of twin turbo 4.6L Fords are making ~1000hp on pump gas. You'd think all these 408-454ci LSx's should be making 1200-1800hp, but they make about the same power. Steve Morris, on the other hand, is upwards of 1600hp, but that's with nearly 600ci. At that power level, your average streetcar is really only good for roll racing, anyways.
TECH Resident
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 814
Likes: 0
From: Champaign IL
Sure the 50ci makes sense, but doesn't more boost as well?
In the grande scheme of things, it really doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference. Just compare the mod motors and the LSx stuff. It seems like there really isn't that much of a power difference. Plenty of twin turbo 4.6L Fords are making ~1000hp on pump gas. You'd think all these 408-454ci LSx's should be making 1200-1800hp, but they make about the same power. Steve Morris, on the other hand, is upwards of 1600hp, but that's with nearly 600ci. At that power level, your average streetcar is really only good for roll racing, anyways.
In the grande scheme of things, it really doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference. Just compare the mod motors and the LSx stuff. It seems like there really isn't that much of a power difference. Plenty of twin turbo 4.6L Fords are making ~1000hp on pump gas. You'd think all these 408-454ci LSx's should be making 1200-1800hp, but they make about the same power. Steve Morris, on the other hand, is upwards of 1600hp, but that's with nearly 600ci. At that power level, your average streetcar is really only good for roll racing, anyways.
Well, i never see mod motors run worth a damn on motor, and IF they do, they have WAY TOO much money in them. On the boost side, yea, the cobra runs well in 03/04, but i see H/C/I LS1s pull them if they only have a few bolt ons, they cost so much more anyways.
The LS1 block is just not reliable for high boost, but the 6.0 and other bigger engones do way better, a LS7 should hit 1400 HP on pump gas i believe if set up right on a twin setup.
Damn mod motors are pricey, and i hate seing anyone with a 2v blow their motor up and put another 2v 4.6 in it when there are TONS of 5.4s out there.
The LS1 block is just not reliable for high boost, but the 6.0 and other bigger engones do way better, a LS7 should hit 1400 HP on pump gas i believe if set up right on a twin setup.
Damn mod motors are pricey, and i hate seing anyone with a 2v blow their motor up and put another 2v 4.6 in it when there are TONS of 5.4s out there.
You could get one to engine dyno that much NA, but after installation in a car, the belt system, and all the other nice drive line parts will probably get it down to the 330 RWHP, give or take which parts are used.
