fastest way to 300 whp
06-27-2012, 07:37 AM
#22
I was going to go 383 with the vortec heads, air gap intake and carb for my 5.7 TBI 1994 silverado. After I priced it all out, the 5.3 was cheaper, makes way more HP, gets better fuel milage and will last longer. These engines are built so well and can so much power. I was worried that if I did a GEN I 383, I would want more power after a year. So after months of debating, I jumped head first on the LS. If you look at the forums like LS1trucks.com and performancetrucks.net you'll see the light.
06-28-2012, 04:01 PM
#26
Oh...it's more than the transmission. That LS PCM or computer is a very powerful engine management system. It's been adapted to Gen I motors with awesome result. http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx
I tell ya....I used to be a hard core Gen I guy. I built Gen I motors that slap SLP and SS Camaros so hard it wasn't funny. But they would idle all day long and pull such generous gas mileage numbers for the performance, that I took notice quick. I'm a convert now because you can pick up Gen III motors so cheap now and parts are actually as cheap if not cheaper than Gen I. I can pick up a set of factory ported heads from Texas Speed that will out-flow a set of Gen I AFR Eliminator 195cc heads for the same price. Factor in the FAR better quality of castings in the factory blocks and better main cap architecture and I have to tell you....you're beating your head against the wall trying to match the Gen III and Gen IV stuff.
I tell ya....I used to be a hard core Gen I guy. I built Gen I motors that slap SLP and SS Camaros so hard it wasn't funny. But they would idle all day long and pull such generous gas mileage numbers for the performance, that I took notice quick. I'm a convert now because you can pick up Gen III motors so cheap now and parts are actually as cheap if not cheaper than Gen I. I can pick up a set of factory ported heads from Texas Speed that will out-flow a set of Gen I AFR Eliminator 195cc heads for the same price. Factor in the FAR better quality of castings in the factory blocks and better main cap architecture and I have to tell you....you're beating your head against the wall trying to match the Gen III and Gen IV stuff.
I hear ya all. I'm going LS too, thats how I know first hand its not cheap! I know some of you are really good at finding deals! But lets be a little more practical. We are not talking about MAX power for the foundation or the dollar. Nor comparing the best LS heads Vs the best Gen I heads. I know the LS does have more potential with its stock platform, but SBC stuff is cheap compare anything (Cam, oil pan, oil pump, ignition etc) especially for the OPs sought HP goal. Also keep in mind, going SBC to LS is alot more labor intensive and $$$ if you plan to go EFI. Grab your budget 50K-75K mile 350 Gen I, slap some vortecs on it and a cam and you will have 400hp. You can do this for $1500 or Less depending if you go used parts or new.
Please stop comparing used LS engine to NEW SBC stuff...its not a good arguement.
06-28-2012, 06:59 PM
#27
I am talking used for used. And your point is clearly mistaken if you are talking dollar for dollar. Efi, perhaps, but the car I am doing now with a 5.3 swap is going pretty well on the budget. As for true budget, the LS has the carb wolf cornered. It is cheap and cost effective. No distributor needed. The old SBC is a remnant. Plain and simple.
Been there and done it, I was a SBC guy till I went to my first 6.0 swap.
3 years of 7200 RPM running 7.1-7.0 in the 1/8th with a stock cammed long block, and a manual Trans all motor on 87, that's right kids, 87 octane.
The sbc takes too much money to catch up. Motor, intake and cam swap was 1500$ to make 500ish HP, gotta love it and if you cannot see that it is better all around unless you are incapable of doing the work ourself, then you are blind.
Don't mean to upset feelings but some just need to let go of the old worn and played out 1955 inferior technology.
Been there and done it, I was a SBC guy till I went to my first 6.0 swap.
3 years of 7200 RPM running 7.1-7.0 in the 1/8th with a stock cammed long block, and a manual Trans all motor on 87, that's right kids, 87 octane.
The sbc takes too much money to catch up. Motor, intake and cam swap was 1500$ to make 500ish HP, gotta love it and if you cannot see that it is better all around unless you are incapable of doing the work ourself, then you are blind.
Don't mean to upset feelings but some just need to let go of the old worn and played out 1955 inferior technology.
06-28-2012, 11:21 PM
#28
I am talking used for used. And your point is clearly mistaken if you are talking dollar for dollar. Efi, perhaps, but the car I am doing now with a 5.3 swap is going pretty well on the budget. As for true budget, the LS has the carb wolf cornered. It is cheap and cost effective. No distributor needed. The old SBC is a remnant. Plain and simple.
Been there and done it, I was a SBC guy till I went to my first 6.0 swap.
3 years of 7200 RPM running 7.1-7.0 in the 1/8th with a stock cammed long block, and a manual Trans all motor on 87, that's right kids, 87 octane.
The sbc takes too much money to catch up. Motor, intake and cam swap was 1500$ to make 500ish HP, gotta love it and if you cannot see that it is better all around unless you are incapable of doing the work ourself, then you are blind.
Don't mean to upset feelings but some just need to let go of the old worn and played out 1955 inferior technology.
Been there and done it, I was a SBC guy till I went to my first 6.0 swap.
3 years of 7200 RPM running 7.1-7.0 in the 1/8th with a stock cammed long block, and a manual Trans all motor on 87, that's right kids, 87 octane.
The sbc takes too much money to catch up. Motor, intake and cam swap was 1500$ to make 500ish HP, gotta love it and if you cannot see that it is better all around unless you are incapable of doing the work ourself, then you are blind.
Don't mean to upset feelings but some just need to let go of the old worn and played out 1955 inferior technology.
Your not getting 500hp out of a 5.3 with just a cam. I have over $4K in my LS, and I dont even have the fuel tank or the tune cost factored in and I close to 500hp. The only stock engine that will wake up like that cam only is the LS3 or the LY6
I know the 5.3s can be had for around average $750. But
Add a cam and lifter $525
Pushrods $ 120
Buy an F-body pan + pick-up + Tray $300
Wire harness mod $200
Tank mods + pump + lines $750
Getting headers? + $300
Your going to be in it $3,000+ and didnt even get heads, new chain/pump etc...
Its not "cheaper" when you have a 350 already sitting in the car. The cheapest/quikest way to 300 RWHP is not an LS swap.
06-29-2012, 06:14 AM
#29
Who said 5.3 in that post? Not me, my 6.0 was 700$, pushrods 100, cam 200, springs 160, intake 270, Pan was 150. With a little searching and patience, it is done. Car yanks the tires and runs low 11s with a 6 speed. As much as I have done the swaps, it is cheaper. I have been there and done it again and again, over and over. Carbed is cheap and effective. I will get a total for the efi swap I am doing now with a 5.3, but the carb 5.3 in my TA was really cheap.
06-29-2012, 11:42 AM
#30
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I hear ya all. I'm going LS too, thats how I know first hand its not cheap! I know some of you are really good at finding deals! But lets be a little more practical. We are not talking about MAX power for the foundation or the dollar. Nor comparing the best LS heads Vs the best Gen I heads. I know the LS does have more potential with its stock platform, but SBC stuff is cheap compare anything (Cam, oil pan, oil pump, ignition etc) especially for the OPs sought HP goal. Also keep in mind, going SBC to LS is alot more labor intensive and $$$ if you plan to go EFI. Grab your budget 50K-75K mile 350 Gen I, slap some vortecs on it and a cam and you will have 400hp. You can do this for $1500 or Less depending if you go used parts or new.
Please stop comparing used LS engine to NEW SBC stuff...its not a good arguement.
Please stop comparing used LS engine to NEW SBC stuff...its not a good arguement.
06-29-2012, 11:49 AM
#31
Who said 5.3 in that post? Not me, my 6.0 was 700$, pushrods 100, cam 200, springs 160, intake 270, Pan was 150. With a little searching and patience, it is done. Car yanks the tires and runs low 11s with a 6 speed. As much as I have done the swaps, it is cheaper. I have been there and done it again and again, over and over. Carbed is cheap and effective. I will get a total for the efi swap I am doing now with a 5.3, but the carb 5.3 in my TA was really cheap.
If you don't mind used stuff, its out there for a good price for sure!
Thats why I giggle when people post in the GEN III section about "can 500hp be had for $2,000"
The answer people say is hell no, but really...yes you can if you are a good shopper.
Theres a guy I read a build on that bought an LS1/T56 combo for nothing, he wouldnt say how much, but he sold the T56 and basically the LS was free
06-29-2012, 02:22 PM
#32
FWIW, I've been a die-hard BBC guy for years (wasn't too big on SBCs, but I've had a 406 in a third gen Camaro that was pretty nasty and a 383 LT1), but in the past couple years, the LS engines have outperformed the older stuff in just about every category. I'm still into BBCs, I just don't see them being used in most applications, and the good-old reliable SBC is all but antiquated now. If you need 600hp or less NA on pump gas and not break the bank - go LS. If you want a cheap carbed V8 that can make ~400hp and get respectable mileage - go LS. If you have a Vortec powered vehicle and want to make ~400hp - keep the Vortec. If you want to hit 1000 hp NA on pump gas - only a BBC can do it. If you need to make 2000, 3000, 4000+ hp - don't even try looking into anything other than a BBC (unless you want a challenge). There are applications where all 3 fit, in the OPs case, he could slap a set of Vortec heads, carbed intake setup, and a Hot Cam on what he's got now and exceed his goal without ever lifting the shortblock or trans out of the truck.
06-29-2012, 04:08 PM
#33
As for the motor being in the vehicle, and not converting since you already have it, i did, sold the vortec 355 for 1000$ and got a 30K mile 5.3 with 243 heads stock for 400$, sold the heads for 400$, still had the 1000$ from the 355 vortec to spend on a trans, intake, ignition and headers, cam swap, ended up putting 500$ out of my own pocket for a 7200 RPM screaming 5.3.
No ARP bolts in the rods and all that. Just beat the snot out of it.
No ARP bolts in the rods and all that. Just beat the snot out of it.
06-29-2012, 08:07 PM
#34
As for the motor being in the vehicle, and not converting since you already have it, i did, sold the vortec 355 for 1000$ and got a 30K mile 5.3 with 243 heads stock for 400$, sold the heads for 400$, still had the 1000$ from the 355 vortec to spend on a trans, intake, ignition and headers, cam swap, ended up putting 500$ out of my own pocket for a 7200 RPM screaming 5.3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrMMh...ature=g-user-u
No ARP bolts in the rods and all that. Just beat the snot out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrMMh...ature=g-user-u
No ARP bolts in the rods and all that. Just beat the snot out of it.
$400 for a 243 headed 30K mile engine?? Thats worth at least $1500. $500-$800 usually gets you 100,000+ miles engine
$1500 got you a:
LS carb intake/Ignition ($800)
Headers ($400)
Cam ($400)
Lifters ($120)
Springs ($120)
Pushrods ($120)
Motor mount adapters ($30-$50)
Thats $3,000 worth of stuff EASY!
Last edited by badazz81z28; 06-29-2012 at 08:14 PM.
06-30-2012, 06:25 AM
#36
No.
I hustle parts like I hustle a race. Your parts list price sucks.
Intake is 270
Ignition is 310-330 depending on gen III or IV
Headers on the TA were 86$ new,,shortys
User cam 200
Stock lifters all day baby
Got the 918 springs off a set of truck heads from here for 100$, sold the heads for 50$
PRs 110
Adapters were 50
Bangin 7200 never was so cheap, lol
You must have some good hook-ups!
$400 for a 243 headed 30K mile engine?? Thats worth at least $1500. $500-$800 usually gets you 100,000+ miles engine
$1500 got you a:
LS carb intake/Ignition ($800)
Headers ($400)
Cam ($400)
Lifters ($120)
Springs ($120)
Pushrods ($120)
Motor mount adapters ($30-$50)
Thats $3,000 worth of stuff EASY!
$400 for a 243 headed 30K mile engine?? Thats worth at least $1500. $500-$800 usually gets you 100,000+ miles engine
$1500 got you a:
LS carb intake/Ignition ($800)
Headers ($400)
Cam ($400)
Lifters ($120)
Springs ($120)
Pushrods ($120)
Motor mount adapters ($30-$50)
Thats $3,000 worth of stuff EASY!
Intake is 270
Ignition is 310-330 depending on gen III or IV
Headers on the TA were 86$ new,,shortys
User cam 200
Stock lifters all day baby
Got the 918 springs off a set of truck heads from here for 100$, sold the heads for 50$
PRs 110
Adapters were 50
Bangin 7200 never was so cheap, lol
06-30-2012, 11:13 AM
#37
No.
I hustle parts like I hustle a race. Your parts list price sucks.
Intake is 270
Ignition is 310-330 depending on gen III or IV
Headers on the TA were 86$ new,,shortys
User cam 200
Stock lifters all day baby
Got the 918 springs off a set of truck heads from here for 100$, sold the heads for 50$
PRs 110
Adapters were 50
Bangin 7200 never was so cheap, lol
I hustle parts like I hustle a race. Your parts list price sucks.
Intake is 270
Ignition is 310-330 depending on gen III or IV
Headers on the TA were 86$ new,,shortys
User cam 200
Stock lifters all day baby
Got the 918 springs off a set of truck heads from here for 100$, sold the heads for 50$
PRs 110
Adapters were 50
Bangin 7200 never was so cheap, lol
Deals can be had especailly if you know the right people and paitent
06-30-2012, 03:33 PM
#38
My prices are what I paid, you can get the intake and ignition off eBay right now for what I listed. The headers over populated eBay for 86$ shipped, you could cut the collectors straight off for 3 inch like I did, then like magic, the 4 or so eBay dealers that carries those cheap headers stopped. Don't know why. But they were decent. Sucks they stopped but they do pop up from individuals that got and never used them.
My prices are exactly what I spent on new an used parts. I don't "know@ anyone, I just hustle and wheel and deal. If you cannot do that then it must not be a budget concern.
But I did buy the ignition here for 250 shipped, then it was the wrong one because it was a 6010, got my gen IV and a member here traded me the 6010 for a 6012.
It is not knowing anyone for me as much as it is havin patience. And even if it did cost a bit more to swap to the newer engines, IT IS WORTH EVERY DOLLAR!
My prices are exactly what I spent on new an used parts. I don't "know@ anyone, I just hustle and wheel and deal. If you cannot do that then it must not be a budget concern.
But I did buy the ignition here for 250 shipped, then it was the wrong one because it was a 6010, got my gen IV and a member here traded me the 6010 for a 6012.
It is not knowing anyone for me as much as it is havin patience. And even if it did cost a bit more to swap to the newer engines, IT IS WORTH EVERY DOLLAR!
06-30-2012, 05:26 PM
#39
You are so right! If you are patient and search around, deals can be had!
If you don't mind used stuff, its out there for a good price for sure!
Thats why I giggle when people post in the GEN III section about "can 500hp be had for $2,000"
The answer people say is hell no, but really...yes you can if you are a good shopper.
Theres a guy I read a build on that bought an LS1/T56 combo for nothing, he wouldnt say how much, but he sold the T56 and basically the LS was free
If you don't mind used stuff, its out there for a good price for sure!
Thats why I giggle when people post in the GEN III section about "can 500hp be had for $2,000"
The answer people say is hell no, but really...yes you can if you are a good shopper.
Theres a guy I read a build on that bought an LS1/T56 combo for nothing, he wouldnt say how much, but he sold the T56 and basically the LS was free
U dont even wanna know what ive gotten ls motors for
Yes, the ls is cheaper in many ways over a sbc. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not researching thoroughly. Plain and simple.
An example
It will take a built forged sbc with aftermarket aluminum heads,cam,intake, and thats assuming u have a roller sbc block to build from.and a aftermarket efi management system, with a strong expensive ignition system
To what a stock longblock with stock heads and plastic intake. 5.3 or 6.0 can take with gm ls9 headgaskets, stock coils,stock pcm and harness.
I for one will take a stock 4.8 over a 350 sbc any day.
Its what im preparing for my build. And im confident it will tolerate up to 800hp.
On stock guts,cam,oe stock heads,ls9 gaskets. On a 7000rpm shift.
I have about 1000$ in this longblock if that, and thats with headstuds.
09 4.8 with less than 200 miles shortblock
NO rebuild or stock sbc will ever compete with that at equivalent level or price.
06-30-2012, 05:41 PM
#40
What makes you think the cast crank and PM rods in a SBC is any weaker than the cast/PM in the LS?
I have to admit, when I tore down my LS engine, things I noticed..
6 bolt main bolts on the LS, BUT they are tiny bolts!
Tiny 8mm rocker bolts on the LS vs 3/8" studs on the SBC
Cast pistons are cast pistons
PM rods are PM rods
cast crank is a cast crank
No arguement the LS makes more power, but I find it hard to believe the parts are "stronger". But I guess thats another thread
I know people love what they love and will defend it
I have to admit, when I tore down my LS engine, things I noticed..
6 bolt main bolts on the LS, BUT they are tiny bolts!
Tiny 8mm rocker bolts on the LS vs 3/8" studs on the SBC
Cast pistons are cast pistons
PM rods are PM rods
cast crank is a cast crank
No arguement the LS makes more power, but I find it hard to believe the parts are "stronger". But I guess thats another thread
I know people love what they love and will defend it
Last edited by badazz81z28; 06-30-2012 at 05:50 PM.