Why down 4 Bolts.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 54
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From: Jesup, GA
Why down 4 Bolts. I know most is gonna say well a LS make power easier and don't have to find decent heads cause the stocks do fine.
BUT
I run a heavily cammed stock 350 4 bolt from a older Impala had like 70,000 or so miles.. cant place the exact mileage. I never touched the short block I got my cam put in, the heads are Steel Double Hump heads with lunati valves and valve springs. Victor 4+4 intake with 750 Holley (flowed and jetted to 900 by Gene Meriner Brunswick, GA) and a upgraded distributor.
I turn it to 7300 before shifting and have never had to retighten anything but a header bolt.
I love LS platforms, easy power and cheap but hey I love my old school 350 and don't see why people down them so much.
BUT
I run a heavily cammed stock 350 4 bolt from a older Impala had like 70,000 or so miles.. cant place the exact mileage. I never touched the short block I got my cam put in, the heads are Steel Double Hump heads with lunati valves and valve springs. Victor 4+4 intake with 750 Holley (flowed and jetted to 900 by Gene Meriner Brunswick, GA) and a upgraded distributor.
I turn it to 7300 before shifting and have never had to retighten anything but a header bolt.
I love LS platforms, easy power and cheap but hey I love my old school 350 and don't see why people down them so much.
I don't down them, but they are what they are, old. Designed in 1955.
I hate distributors, and the LS is simple and super cost effective.
You turn 7300 with stock heads and untouched bottom end? I have never seen any sbc do that except LT1 and vortec with the powdered rods. If you do, that's rare, where I turn all my 5.3s and 6.0s to 7200 all the time, but then again I'm doing it with single springs, stock chain, and one of them uses stock pushrods.
Just effortless.
Not to mention all the crap my 300$ ignition box does.
I hate distributors, and the LS is simple and super cost effective.
You turn 7300 with stock heads and untouched bottom end? I have never seen any sbc do that except LT1 and vortec with the powdered rods. If you do, that's rare, where I turn all my 5.3s and 6.0s to 7200 all the time, but then again I'm doing it with single springs, stock chain, and one of them uses stock pushrods.
Just effortless.
Not to mention all the crap my 300$ ignition box does.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Ozarks
I agree with ZONES89RS.
I’ve been building and beating on small block Chevys for over 40 years. With aftermarket support I think it is much easier now then every before to build a good one. The problem is the fact that the sbc now has to face improved and advanced competing similar sized engines. I’m still building a few but mainly because I’m using up years of acquired parts. The flathead Ford was king for a long time but the sbc ended its reign. The LS is doing the same thing to the sbc and the reasons are the same. The LS is technically superior, readily available, has excellent aftermarket support, fits in most engine compartments and is cheap.
One of the magazines built a big inch small block specifically targeting LS performance. They got the HP but IIRC they needed about 20 degrees more cam timing than a similarly built LS engine would need. The two engines might be capable of similar quarter mile times but I know which one I’d want to drive in traffic.
I’ve been building and beating on small block Chevys for over 40 years. With aftermarket support I think it is much easier now then every before to build a good one. The problem is the fact that the sbc now has to face improved and advanced competing similar sized engines. I’m still building a few but mainly because I’m using up years of acquired parts. The flathead Ford was king for a long time but the sbc ended its reign. The LS is doing the same thing to the sbc and the reasons are the same. The LS is technically superior, readily available, has excellent aftermarket support, fits in most engine compartments and is cheap.
One of the magazines built a big inch small block specifically targeting LS performance. They got the HP but IIRC they needed about 20 degrees more cam timing than a similarly built LS engine would need. The two engines might be capable of similar quarter mile times but I know which one I’d want to drive in traffic.
15* heads is a hell of an advantage. Lol. Not to mention the quench, ever see a LS with no heads and put a piston to TDC, the piston is out around .005, unlike the SBC that sits in the hole. Things like that have to be machined into the sbc.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Central NJ
I never thought much of Camel hump heads, too many people I know tried to go fast with them and ended up regretting the investment.
But the SBC does have a lot of head options out there, some of which can make a lot of power. The issues lie in the bottom end - an LS motor can get the revs to use those large port heads, while a SBC needs a lot of great parts and machine work to get up there and survive.
But the SBC does have a lot of head options out there, some of which can make a lot of power. The issues lie in the bottom end - an LS motor can get the revs to use those large port heads, while a SBC needs a lot of great parts and machine work to get up there and survive.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Jesup, GA
i agree with everything you guys have said and man I didnt believe my car turned 7300 but when I finally got to run my car and it was handed to me (pop handed it down) it did a 7300 rpm shift and does good, regardless i need better heads but hey junkyard impala with 350 4 bolt and a cam and it ran good. It even surprises me because one day at the track going from 2nd to drive it broke my driveshaft slap in half like it ripped it. Usually never hear of that around here.
I am planning to rebuild my 350 into a 355 with forged rods and flat tops with a scat crank and put a little 150 shot to it. I will of course put on Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads though.
Or simply go LS for the easier and fun route but with a carb
I am planning to rebuild my 350 into a 355 with forged rods and flat tops with a scat crank and put a little 150 shot to it. I will of course put on Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads though.
Or simply go LS for the easier and fun route but with a carb
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Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 53
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From: Ozarks
I don’t want to discourage your rebuild plans but consider the budget.
If you stay first gen typical costs are something like:
Forged rotating assembly $1700 (stroking to 383 about the same price as stock stroke)
Heads $1200
Roller cam $300 or $700 if retrofit. My preference is to keep it under 246 @ .050 if you want to put many street miles on it. BUT if you keep it under 246 how much power will a 23 degree engine make? I agree that your 150 shot will help but power that is avalable all the time is pretty cool too.
Machine work $400
Ignition upgrades $100-$400
Fuel system upgrade?
Rockers, push rods, timing set, gaskets…..
N2O kit
That money would go a long way towards an LS swap.
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I built a pretty stout SBC making almost 600 on pump gas.
Solid Roller AFR headed 383. Very happy with the build but I started building it a few years ago. While it will be a whole lot of fun (and was built to take a healthy shot of spray) I know that I could have built an even more fun LS with the same coin.
Solid Roller AFR headed 383. Very happy with the build but I started building it a few years ago. While it will be a whole lot of fun (and was built to take a healthy shot of spray) I know that I could have built an even more fun LS with the same coin.
i agree with everything you guys have said and man I didnt believe my car turned 7300 but when I finally got to run my car and it was handed to me (pop handed it down) it did a 7300 rpm shift and does good, regardless i need better heads but hey junkyard impala with 350 4 bolt and a cam and it ran good. It even surprises me because one day at the track going from 2nd to drive it broke my driveshaft slap in half like it ripped it. Usually never hear of that around here.
I am planning to rebuild my 350 into a 355 with forged rods and flat tops with a scat crank and put a little 150 shot to it. I will of course put on Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads though.
Or simply go LS for the easier and fun route but with a carb
I am planning to rebuild my 350 into a 355 with forged rods and flat tops with a scat crank and put a little 150 shot to it. I will of course put on Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads though.
Or simply go LS for the easier and fun route but with a carb
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Jesup, GA
Yeah I just dont feel like troubling with MSD again, last time it left me wishing I would of never spent the money. I love my gen 1 engine cause of how easy I can trouble shoot and fix it because of how much I have messed with them. But seems like everyone is going to a power adder and a LS around here.
150 shot just because I dont believe in Nitrous but I do like the feeling of "Hey he has a turbo and if I get introuble that button will look pretty"
Either way I end up going I know I will have to beef something here and plumb something there but honestly I think I am gonna go with a forged 383 or 355, go with Dart heads or something better than shoot nitrous to it ounce every while
150 shot just because I dont believe in Nitrous but I do like the feeling of "Hey he has a turbo and if I get introuble that button will look pretty"
Either way I end up going I know I will have to beef something here and plumb something there but honestly I think I am gonna go with a forged 383 or 355, go with Dart heads or something better than shoot nitrous to it ounce every while
No trouble shooting here, I did happen to have a 6012 that I ran the crank sensor wiring without the GM connector that flips the putter wires for you, so it popped and acted funny, the msd customer service helped me out, no biggie. I have used so many of their ignitions it isn't even funny, and I have yet to have a failure. A friend had crap grounds and burned his up, but MSD still warranties it even though he screwed it up.
Nothing wrong with the old sbc if you like spending the cash, but there is no way I would ever build less than 383 cubes to stay with the LS. One member took his cam and carbed 6.0 with L92 heads(LY6), and spun to 7500 and made 580 hp. That is just crazy for stock parts. And no cubes.
Nothing wrong with the old sbc if you like spending the cash, but there is no way I would ever build less than 383 cubes to stay with the LS. One member took his cam and carbed 6.0 with L92 heads(LY6), and spun to 7500 and made 580 hp. That is just crazy for stock parts. And no cubes.
No trouble shooting here, I did happen to have a 6012 that I ran the crank sensor wiring without the GM connector that flips the putter wires for you, so it popped and acted funny, the msd customer service helped me out, no biggie. I have used so many of their ignitions it isn't even funny, and I have yet to have a failure. A friend had crap grounds and burned his up, but MSD still warranties it even though he screwed it up.
Nothing wrong with the old sbc if you like spending the cash, but there is no way I would ever build less than 383 cubes to stay with the LS. One member took his cam and carbed 6.0 with L92 heads(LY6), and spun to 7500 and made 580 hp. That is just crazy for stock parts. And no cubes.
Nothing wrong with the old sbc if you like spending the cash, but there is no way I would ever build less than 383 cubes to stay with the LS. One member took his cam and carbed 6.0 with L92 heads(LY6), and spun to 7500 and made 580 hp. That is just crazy for stock parts. And no cubes.
The only reason I'm sticking with my Vortec 350 is becuase dollar for dollar, already having the Vortec 350, I can make more low-end torque for a towing application easier than I can with an LS. I have no need or will to rev it high.COP/multi-point conversion on my 350, even with rebuilding it, I should still reign in under $1500. I can't do a 6.0 swap that cheap and match the sub-3k rpm torque. Well, I probably could, if I wanted a high mileage junkyard motor that might have issues. Certainly not with a full rebuild like I'll have with the 350.
Out of the ton of junkyard LS engines I have bought in my time, I have had one smoke a little. Got my 2008 5.3, 2008 4.8 and a 2009 4.8 for 500$ each, and the 4.8 I put in my truck with no cam only carb and headers whooped the vortec 350 engines. Much less a 5.3. Now a junkyard 6.0 that I get for 7-800$, way way better than anything out there from any gen I.
And I have yet you do anything but swap heads if I desired. Throw a cam in. Reused stock lifters and even pushrods on some.
And I have yet you do anything but swap heads if I desired. Throw a cam in. Reused stock lifters and even pushrods on some.
Out of the ton of junkyard LS engines I have bought in my time, I have had one smoke a little. Got my 2008 5.3, 2008 4.8 and a 2009 4.8 for 500$ each, and the 4.8 I put in my truck with no cam only carb and headers whooped the vortec 350 engines. Much less a 5.3. Now a junkyard 6.0 that I get for 7-800$, way way better than anything out there from any gen I.
And I have yet you do anything but swap heads if I desired. Throw a cam in. Reused stock lifters and even pushrods on some.
And I have yet you do anything but swap heads if I desired. Throw a cam in. Reused stock lifters and even pushrods on some.
Oh, I hear ya - I have an '04 5.3 with just an LS6 cam in my Volvo. Hook 8-10k lbs on the back of my heavy *** C2500 HD though (4l80e as well), and I think the modded Vortec 350 will quite easily out-pull a 5.3l that has <$1500 total in the entire swap
Doll Hair to Doll Hair the ls platform will win over the sbc, but if you already have it then go for it. how can you not "believe" in nitrous? it does the same thing as a turbo or blower car does, it increases cylinder pressure by adding a metric shitload of oxygen in the cylinders. like i said earlier i spray a shitload of nitrous on my sbc for years and will spray even more this time around after the rebuild.
Doll Hair to Doll Hair the ls platform will win over the sbc, but if you already have it then go for it. how can you not "believe" in nitrous? it does the same thing as a turbo or blower car does, it increases cylinder pressure by adding a metric shitload of oxygen in the cylinders. like i said earlier i spray a shitload of nitrous on my sbc for years and will spray even more this time around after the rebuild.
Because Nitrous can be evil. 1 small fuckup can cause an explosion or even death. I've sen it. I've seen a car burnt to the ground due to a nitrous solenoid failure. And few people tune nitrous correctly it seems, some are either stupid rich, or scary lean. As a tuner friend said to me once, it's a fuel, and should be treated as such. If there's a PCM and injectos controlling gasoline, there should be the same for a 2nd fuel, be it nitrous, methanol, etc.
If that's the case, you may want to avoid cars all together. They use this thing called "fuel", and in history, more cars have burned and exploded because of that stuff than nitrous could ever even catch up with.