TimTaylor75

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the clarification. Kinda makes me wonder in that case because what I posted above was exactly how the conversation went. My thinking is that he may have mentioned that to maybe safeguard themselves as a company? He mentioned that they'd rather build (in my case) a BBC to achieve those numbers to build me something (I'd be happy with for quite a while). They've been in business for 25 years, so I just may need to speak to them a few more times before an actual work begins.

Quickin

If you're thinking BBC or SBC you really should talk to these guys as part of your research. I spoke with them last week about a sc'ed BBC or a SBC turbo build, they know what they're talking about, very impressed. I'm waiting on quotes right now.

wwwfasttimesmotorworks.com

1fastWS6

iTrader: (3)

You might inquire with some engine builders about the bore/stroke combination of the SBC vs BBC and which combination is more octane tolerant. From what I've read things such as piston dwell and bore size can affect detonation resistance. For example, a 427 SBC may or may not be capable of the same power output as a 427 BBC both on pump gas.

Villain281H

iTrader: (5)

600 hp small block in a car running 10's in the 1/4 N/A is cheezy? Man do I want your budget! My 383 makes about 370 rwhp through a TH400 and a street set-up (3500 lbs, all steel, full exhaust with tailpipes, 3.73 gears, 10" convertor), and I'd guess that's about 500 hp or so at the flywheel. It cost a good 6 grand to build, and I know building a higher hp set-up with a forged rotating assembly, aftermarket block and so on would push the $10,000 mark. For that kind of money, I'd go 9's with a big block N/A, but I think running fast with a small block is more impressive. I have yet to see a reliable 1,000 hp street car (and I don't mean a 600 hp car with a 400 hp shot of nitrous) that gets driven more than a few miles to a cruise-in then raced most of the time. These cars usually have more $ in their engine then I have in my entire car.

Okay I'm done ranting, I guess someone saying 600 hp is cheezy just means my **** is slower than I thought 5 minutes ago...

Derek

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

Quickin I wouldn't say your car idles like stock

There was a comparison of a 454 ci small block versus the the 454 big block in hotrod way back when. The engines made similar peak power but of course the BB made more torque in the mid.

In the end they put it in a Nova and ran passes with each motor. The BB won. Why? Torque is what moves ya and is what wins races.

No replacement for displacement.

The reason BBC makes more power is because like someone else said, it can breathe better. heads flow more, bigger valves, yadda yadda. The Beauty of BB is that you don't have to rev them that high.

God I miss my 396 Chevelle.

I seriously don't think a BB can make 1000 on pump gas. If they did a lot more people would be running them, especially at the PGD.

Quickin

When I say a stock-like idle I mean I have no lope at all, no lumpyness, it doesn't shake and it just sits and idles smooth.

www.fasttimesmotorworks.com has the 1,000 hp (850 RWHP) Procharged 598ci BBC on pump gas. They sell them as a turn-key crate engine. The owner also told me that their gas up in Michigan has less octane in it than in Florida, I guess because of some additive for the cold, and it would run better down here on our 93 octane. Idle is set at 700 rpm on this engine too.

This guy has a 1,050 hp, pump gas 91 octane BBC. He has to have 91 octane for the race event rules. Damn thing idles at less rpm than mine. This engine has one carb and no forced induction so I'm sure it idles rougher than the Procharged one. The Procharged one idles very smooth from what I was told. But the question about 91 0ctane is well known and its been done to death, The guy at Gayle Banks said it can be done quite easily with a BBC too. Thats why I started this thread, I guess more/faster airflow alone, simply allows less octane. Thats all I can figure

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0206_1000/index.html


.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

That motor from HotRod will cost you about 30 grand to build..

Quickin

Yeah, the 1,000 fwhp FTM 598ci BBC is $26,000, ready to start up as a tuned and finished crate engine package. Comes with everyting from intake to oil pan. To upgrade the Procharger and heads to make 1,800 FWHP its another ~$3,000.

But you'll have an engine that will last a very long time and one that can be beaten to death. No LSx based engine at 1,800 fwhp (if one could even get there) could handle half the abuse and live. Thats the problem. And an LSx based TT or SC'ed or single T engine will cost almost as much probably.

Which would you rather have in your car is the question?


.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

I'd rather have a small block with twin turbos. Keeps the weight off the nose and the car more balanced.

I seriously don't think any Procharger is gonna add another 800 hp and stay on pump gas. 1800 hp no matter how you slice it and dice it is not gonna last and be perfectly maintenance free for miles and miles.

Whether you're at 1000 hp, 890 hp, 1500 hp, 1250 hp, etc you ain't gonna hook on the street, power like that is more for bragging rights than anything. If you think your car is nose heavy now and have problem spinning wait till you put that monster in it, the back tires may come off the ground, lol.

There's a lot of factors you aren't including, like fuel system, new bracketry for accessories, etc, custom built headers, exhaust, etc etc etc, not too mention labor to install, custom mtr mounts, making it fit in your bay, beefing up your front suspension.

need I go on?

If going fast were easy everybody would be fast.

Quickin

[QUOTE=Got Me SOM]I'd rather have a small block with twin turbos. Keeps the weight off the nose and the car more balanced.

No, no, never said that. The 1,000 hp BBC clearly runs perfectly on 91 octane. There's many of them all over the place in race events that are limited to 91 octane as rules. Not an 1,800 hp engine.
DNE Motorsports Development builds the 1,000+ hp BBC for drag boats, they can only use 91 octane gas. And they use carbs. They can use FI which makes them more powerful. I've been reading articles on these crazy engines.

I hear ya. Marko, Jose and FTM all told me that an LSX engine with a single turbo, either the GT55-91mm or the more recommended new S95, would make 1,500 RWHP.

I would also rather go the LSx way, just to make it easy. The "Street Killer" single turbo kit is $4,800. A built Warhawk, lets just go high and say $11,000.

$16,000.......could it be that cheap? TH400 and you're ready.

But I'm probably missing something here


.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

FIGURE 5 GRAND AS A BUFFER AND YOU'LL BE GOOD TO GO. They're still figuring out combos for these lsx motors.

if I had the extra scratch or if I banged a rich woman, for fun I'd build a serious, almost all out but not really weekend/street/strip car. 408 with Twins, Turbo 400 or built 4L80e, 9 inch, 10 pt cage, but full interior'd still. Only thing the car wouldn't have is A/C. It would be built similar to the white T/A from Livernois. simple combo that works. That car went 8.9 and was on streets of Michigan.

That's what I'm talking about!!

hey its only money!

91Z28

BBC Heads flow more

Quickin

I'm just trying to understand more in-depth why the same octane can be squeezed in a given cylinder and not detonate just because there's more airflow. More air means you need more fuel, so ratios don't change, and are relative to the different sized pistons.

I guess it's because of airflow, but why and how?




.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

you answered your own question
go here and read.
read about engines.

www.howstuffworks.com

ball597

theres no replacement for displacement hands down for what it takes to make a sb to equal what bb is already

PICNIC_GEORGE

iTrader: (3)

Airflow = power. A small block head is going to be more limited as to the amount of air it can flow. It's just that simple. Combustion design, material, weight all play parts but the proof is in the pudding.

I will say right now though there are alot more 600hp pump gas small blocks running around than 1000hp pump gas big blocks.

I made 750 in my 468 on pump gas and I thought that was pretty impressive.

How about 1500? 1800? This nova is nasty!
http://procharger.com/chevy_nova.shtml

Vortec355

It's all in the heads. A big block 18 degree head flows sick numbers. 400+cc intake runners are huge and no small block runner is even close to that. The closest thing is the Dart little chief, it has a 310cc intake runner. Average horsepower is different than peak. A big block makes more average horsepower than a small block hands down.