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Nate, at that dream cruise, there was a pic somebody took of a '99 BBM Z28 convertible Camaro I found one year. That car is 1 of only 17. I think it had a white leather interior too.
Overall I love that the T/A's are becoming rarer. I typically see about 14 mustangs and 5 camaros per Firebird-T/A while cruising on the freeway in California. I would have thought a white WS6 would have been a little more rare. I have only seen maybe one since April. I have seen an Orange Metallic.
I have a friend who has a 1998 WS6 with an LS1 and the paint code for 1998 doesn't exist. The same color in 1999 does not match. There were only 22 cars made in 1998 with the the Royal Navy blue and there was a problem with the paint. My buddy is actually trying to sell his right now it's got 90,000 mi on it and the car is gorgeous
I have a friend who has a 1998 WS6 with an LS1 and the paint code for 1998 doesn't exist. The same color in 1999 does not match. There were only 22 cars made in 1998 with the the Royal Navy blue and there was a problem with the paint. My buddy is actually trying to sell his right now it's got 90,000 mi on it and the car is gorgeous
What is the RPO and paint code listed on the SPID? Even if it's not a color listed in factory literature as being available, there would still have to be a color code printed on the SPID when the car was built (I think GM used "01U" for special/custom orders in that era if color was not specified as something normally available, say, for certain types of promo cars, etc.) But there would have to be something listed.
Also, "Royal Navy Blue" was not a 1999 color either. The blues for 1999 were Navy Blue Metallic (28U) and Medium Gulf Blue (Bright Blue) Metallic (20U).
To my knowledge, there were 20 WS6 1998 coupes and 9 WS6 1998 convertibles that were painted 28U Navy Blue Metallic, but it was certainly a factory color, just uncommon for '98 compared to the later years. These days it's uncommon to see a 4th gen Firebird in any color other than white, red, black, silver, or pewter since there were so many made in those more common colors (and so many 4th gens have met their fate in a junkyard over the last 20+ years).
With that said, I don't know if the actual paint code that the RPO code 28U stands for is different or not for 1998 vs. 1999-2002. It's supposed to be WA352E for 1998-2002, so if his RPO code sticker shows something different, I'd like to see it.
There are only 2 paint code quirks I'm aware of:
One concerns Mystic Teal Metallic (Firebird name: Blue Green Chameleon Metallic). It's code 79U, which was GM paint code WA119B from 1995-1996 and GM paint code WA320C from 1997-2001. How the two are visually different or how they are different from a paint mixing point of view... I have no idea. I don't have any friends who are painters, so I haven't bothered to ask anyone how the ingredients for WA119B are different from WA320C and that isn't information you'll find publicly online.
The other quirk is a typo. From 1999 to 2000, Sebring Silver Metallic Camaros (and probably Firebirds too) have an incorrect paint code for 13U on their RPO code stickers. They say it's WA9966, but it's actually WA9566.
There are some anecdotal stories about paint issues concerning certain colors, but I haven't memorized those stories. Mystic Teal and Bright Purple are the two I've heard stories about regarding painting problems. There's also the mystery (that GM representatives themselves cannot answer or dig up info on) regarding why Medium Quasar Blue Metallic (Firebird name: Bright Blue Metallic... annoyingly enough... not to be confused with the '99 color of the same name for Camaros (Firebird name: Medium Blue Metallic)) is shown as a '93 color, yet the production records show 0 were produced. There was even a V6 Camaro in this color in the '93 Camaro brochure/catalog, but it doesn't show up on the records. I don't exactly look for '93s for sale in this color every day, week, month, or year, but back when I used to look at classifieds every single week ~10 years ago, I never once found a Medium Quasar Blue '93, except one that was originally a different color and repainted that color. It wasn't a rare color for '94-'97, but for some reason it doesn't exist for '93. It was not unheard of for GM employees to essentially Photoshop cars different colors for the brochures (the '98 Camaro brochure's Bright Purple Metallic Camaro was faked--it was a Navy Blue Metallic one that was color shifted digitally), but I've seen multiple pictures of that Medium Quasar Blue '93 V6 Camaro used in the brochure and as a media image (even as a placeholder on some car classified sites to this day) and it doesn't look like the color was faked to me.
Weird stuff DID happen, but even the weird stuff would be possible to verify if you managed to get a photo of your friend's RPO code sticker. I'd like to see it if you can get a picture of it. It's going to have a weird RPO code or paint code on it if it's truly something strange.
My understanding is that NBM was the replacement for BPM and that transition occurred during the '98 MY production, which would help explain why so few '98 NBM cars were built compared to later years. ASC was also having trouble getting the BPM "right" on the fiberglass WS6 hoods.
The rarest WS6 color may be the 79U Blue Green Chameleon. While officially that color was never offered, it appears one may perhaps exist.
I am currently looking into the possibility as the specific car was delivered to Carl Black as a GMMG Blackbird (car #10). While the RPO indicates the car without the WS6 option, it is equipped with all facility WS6 equipment.
Generally speaking, GMMG started Blackbird conversions with true WS6 cars. That is not to say someone requested the 79U color and a non-WS6 Trans Am was delivered and converted, just not sure which avenue was taken.
Similar instances like the story of the 1998 Formula WS6 convertible have been discovered. The car should not exist according to production numbers, but yet it does.
I happen to be fortunate to have a few sources at GM looking into this, but records of certain builds do not always exist. Perhaps I am wrong, but I have a vested interest in trying to find out.
If anyone has information regarding Blackbird #10, I would love for you to contact me.
While the RPO indicates the car without the WS6 option, it is equipped with all facility WS6 equipment.
Generally speaking, GMMG started Blackbird conversions with true WS6 cars. That is not to say someone requested the 79U color and a non-WS6 Trans Am was delivered and converted
That (bolded part) is the most likely explanation, IMO.
ASC was the only "factory-authorized" conversion facility for the WS6 package in the LS1 years, and those cars would have all had the WS6 RPO as part of the conversion package. But all items to do the conversion were available to purchase O-T-C, so the "conversion" could have easily taken place outside the ASC plant.
Originally Posted by wesst
Similar instances like the story of the 1998 Formula WS6 convertible have been discovered. The car should not exist according to production numbers, but yet it does.
I happen to be fortunate to have a few sources at GM looking into this, but records of certain builds do not always exist. Perhaps I am wrong, but I have a vested interest in trying to find out.
My understanding of that WS6 Formula 'vert is that its SPID does in fact show the "WS6" code as well as all proper indicators for being a Formula convertible. So while mainstream production numbers might not indicate that it exists, the VIN correlates to an SPID which correctly confirms the content, whether it "should" exist or not.
Things were much looser at the OEMs a half-century ago, but I don't think you'll find too many (if any at all) instances of modern-era (meaning 17-digit VIN, emissions compliant) vehicles with saleable, registrable VINs leaking out of the factory with otherwise-coded content that is somehow not accounted for on their build sheets or SPID.
That BGC GMMG car was discussed elsewhere on here not long ago, had a picture of it too. It did not leave the factory w/ any WS6 equipment, it was all added by GMMG.
The 2 '98 Formula WS6 'verts show up in CompNine's database. The story I read on here some time ago was that there was a dealer in Kansas (I think) that ordered both of those cars. I've often speculated that this order was placed during the '97 MY run when you could purchase a Formula 'vert and was filled w/ '98 MY cars despite Pontiac no longer offering a 'vert body on a Formula trim in '98+. One of them was for sale a while back and the ad showed the SPID decal which confirmed its Formula 'vert WS6 equipment (this also confirmed for me which car had the M6 and white top combo before I even discovered CompNine). Regardless, these cars exist and left the factory w/ their WS6 equipment.
12-27-2010, 11:12 AM
