Blackbird!!!!
10-29-2004, 09:24 PM
#41
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Hey Dawg One- Very nice website and a beautiful car as well you have. I lost first place to a Red Firehawk at one of the bigest judging show in my area last month. I think it was a 2000 but in mint shape like yours. I dont mind losing to a fellow TA owner. Take care..... 
11-24-2004, 08:44 PM
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Hello DanDan,
This is Rob in VA, I saw that you were looking for a SOM Blackbird. Just happened to see where you posted on missing the one in FL w/ 57k mi. Before you ask, No I didn't buy it. I am an original owner on a SOM Anniversary Edition Blackbird w/ approx. 3500 miles on it. Mine has the white ball shifter & black stripes and is either 1 of 1 or 1 of 2 Ann. Ed. BB. I haven't been actively trying to sell but for the right price (it won't be near 21k though) I'd seriously consider. If you are seriously interested give me a call at (434) 660-6760. Also curious what # the BB in FL was & where in VA it went to if you know. Thanks, Rob
This is Rob in VA, I saw that you were looking for a SOM Blackbird. Just happened to see where you posted on missing the one in FL w/ 57k mi. Before you ask, No I didn't buy it. I am an original owner on a SOM Anniversary Edition Blackbird w/ approx. 3500 miles on it. Mine has the white ball shifter & black stripes and is either 1 of 1 or 1 of 2 Ann. Ed. BB. I haven't been actively trying to sell but for the right price (it won't be near 21k though) I'd seriously consider. If you are seriously interested give me a call at (434) 660-6760. Also curious what # the BB in FL was & where in VA it went to if you know. Thanks, Rob
11-26-2004, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by carrillo1967
Hey Dawg One- Very nice website and a beautiful car as well you have. I lost first place to a Red Firehawk at one of the bigest judging show in my area last month. I think it was a 2000 but in mint shape like yours. I dont mind losing to a fellow TA owner. Take care.....
Rob, don't sell that car, man! I wish I had so few miles on mine. Alas, that wedding trip to Orlando ended up being a protracted 1,000+ miles in only 3 days since I had to make a few roundtrips to Ocala as well. While I regret the miles, at least I got the chance to open her up for a good ten hours at 80+.
Gotta' love the coming of cooler weather. At least in Florida we don't have to pack 'em up for the winter. They drive downright nice in the thinner, cooler air
11-26-2004, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Bird Mann
Carrillo1967 is this the car owned by a guy named George Harrison? I was told by my contact at Year One that the other Year One Prototype car was for sale last week . He has put a couple new clutches in the car since he bought it.I was told the car still is in good shape and that he wants close to 50K for the car. Send me a pic of it when you get the chance.
Happy Holidays All!!!!
11-27-2004, 07:39 PM
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There were 17 Anniversary Edition Blackbirds built (though I have heard rumors of 19 one being an Auto) - originally supposed to be 100 but Carl Black halted production due to worries about liability issues due to the rating them at 380 hp & 435 hp by GMMG. Carl Black later used the remaining badges & wheels to create the Formula cars - no HP upgrades as far as I know just an appearance package - I not sure how many of these were built.
My knowledge is:
50 original BB cars various colors
17 Anniversary Edition BB cars - various colors
7 to 10 Year One Edition BB cars - all silver
5 or 6 Collector Edition BB cars - all yellow
? Formula cars -- various colors - Formulas w/ WS6 hood & appearance pkg only
I'm also curious about the Maple Red Ann. Ed. car -- where did you see it?
My knowledge is:
50 original BB cars various colors
17 Anniversary Edition BB cars - various colors
7 to 10 Year One Edition BB cars - all silver
5 or 6 Collector Edition BB cars - all yellow
? Formula cars -- various colors - Formulas w/ WS6 hood & appearance pkg only
I'm also curious about the Maple Red Ann. Ed. car -- where did you see it?
11-27-2004, 09:10 PM
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Very interesting information. Why would they get nervous/concerned??? Heck, SLP was a Tier 1 supplier to GM, so I'd think that GMMG would kind of carry the same type of weight (even though Matt Murphy and SLP are another story entirely!).
11-27-2004, 09:36 PM
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OJ,
The way I understand it is that Carl Black's lawyers got Mr. Black nervous about the liability issues because of some wreck involving an 18 yr kid totally either one of the BB cars or a Saleen Mustang and the parents coming back on both the manufacturer & the dealer who sold this dealer modified car. Therefore he (Mr. Black) pulled the plug on increasing the HP on anymore cars.
When I bought mine, late Feb. 02 after coming back from FL (WinterNats) -- I had called before going to FL - they only had #9 red AE left so I waited -- when I got back I called to get the red car but it was sold but they said they had #8 left, it was SOM, and the guy who ordered it had not put any deposit down and wasn't returning their calls so they offered it to me - I took it immediately since that was the color I wanted to begin with. The salesman told me that they had halted production at that time & wasn't sure if it would continue due to reason above. I believe that my car was the very last AE sold but I have heard rumors of a car #18 & #19 Ann. Ed. but haven't seen any proof of their existent or even if they are 380 hp cars.
The way I understand it is that Carl Black's lawyers got Mr. Black nervous about the liability issues because of some wreck involving an 18 yr kid totally either one of the BB cars or a Saleen Mustang and the parents coming back on both the manufacturer & the dealer who sold this dealer modified car. Therefore he (Mr. Black) pulled the plug on increasing the HP on anymore cars.
When I bought mine, late Feb. 02 after coming back from FL (WinterNats) -- I had called before going to FL - they only had #9 red AE left so I waited -- when I got back I called to get the red car but it was sold but they said they had #8 left, it was SOM, and the guy who ordered it had not put any deposit down and wasn't returning their calls so they offered it to me - I took it immediately since that was the color I wanted to begin with. The salesman told me that they had halted production at that time & wasn't sure if it would continue due to reason above. I believe that my car was the very last AE sold but I have heard rumors of a car #18 & #19 Ann. Ed. but haven't seen any proof of their existent or even if they are 380 hp cars.
11-27-2004, 09:40 PM
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As for SLP - GM directly hires them whereas the stuff GMMG is doing though approved by GM is done only on an individual dealer basis, therefore if liability issues appear you can pretty well bet that GM is not going to back the dealer up. Also the SLP cars aren't broadcasting their HP ratings right on the hood.
11-28-2004, 11:23 AM
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Great information guys. My thing is that in all the counts that I see I dont think the Prototypes are ever included. I now seen another Blackbird for sale on EBay. He is listing that one as 2001 BB PR-1. He is saying his is the first one ever made. How many protoypes did they make because I have seen a few of them and why arent they ever incuded in the total of BB. I know when I bought my car I made sure that when they meant prototype that it wasnt missing anything that the final cars were getting. Which it wasnt.
For the question were are all these on sale. Well I have seen 2 on Ebay recently. One that is listed right now and one that didnt sell.
And I know someone who gets a hold of a few to sell them.
For the question were are all these on sale. Well I have seen 2 on Ebay recently. One that is listed right now and one that didnt sell.
And I know someone who gets a hold of a few to sell them.
11-28-2004, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SOMBlackbird
As for SLP - GM directly hires them whereas the stuff GMMG is doing though approved by GM is done only on an individual dealer basis, therefore if liability issues appear you can pretty well bet that GM is not going to back the dealer up. Also the SLP cars aren't broadcasting their HP ratings right on the hood.
11-28-2004, 07:27 PM
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Actually, Rob (geez, I didn't mean for this to get so serious!), I put those on myself.
BUT...the LT4 Firehawk from 1997 did come from SLP with 330HP stickers on the hood. That's where I got the inspiration to do mine.
Raises a fundamental question, which is all over now since NO F-bodies are being built anymore...
I've had seven F-bodies, all V-8 powered, since 1986. So I consider myself to be a pretty seasoned performance car driver.
YET...any jacka$$ with $50K can waltz into a Chevy dealer and pick up a Vette or $30K buys a GTO and you can do just as much damage as we can.
While I am in no way arguing a side here, I've always felt sort of an elitist attitude about my car, having garnered considerable experience over the nearly two decades I've been driving them and earning the right to do so.
I understand this is a free and capitalist society, so anyone can buy anything they want, but if we force people to show ability and demand a specific motorcycle or commercial driver's license to drive certain modes of transportation, why then, would be allow just anyone to sit behind the wheel of a 400HP rocket and navigate through traffic on a daily basis?
Again, this crosses over into a "my free rights as an American" type thing, but over and over you see the same people wrecking and killing strapped into a car like this.
It's rarely the experienced driver who does so.
Completely isolated case in point? Last year...fresh from seeing "Fast and Furious II", teenager (17) takes mom's C5 and races down a major thoroughfare, pumped with a false sense of invincibility and bulging with a high dose of teen testosterone fueled by the young pretty seated next to him. Result? Two dead. And the parents were in law enforcement as a career. WHY would you allow a teen driver access to a car like this???
Anyhow, that's really off the topic, but raising liability issues against someone who legally builds a fast car is B.S. to me. If you buy it, if you drive it, you should understand and accept the responsibility for what you have strapped yourself into.
EVERY car is a lethal weapon. Ours just happen to be able to do twice as much damager twice as fast as the next guy...
BUT...the LT4 Firehawk from 1997 did come from SLP with 330HP stickers on the hood. That's where I got the inspiration to do mine.
Raises a fundamental question, which is all over now since NO F-bodies are being built anymore...
I've had seven F-bodies, all V-8 powered, since 1986. So I consider myself to be a pretty seasoned performance car driver.
YET...any jacka$$ with $50K can waltz into a Chevy dealer and pick up a Vette or $30K buys a GTO and you can do just as much damage as we can.
While I am in no way arguing a side here, I've always felt sort of an elitist attitude about my car, having garnered considerable experience over the nearly two decades I've been driving them and earning the right to do so.
I understand this is a free and capitalist society, so anyone can buy anything they want, but if we force people to show ability and demand a specific motorcycle or commercial driver's license to drive certain modes of transportation, why then, would be allow just anyone to sit behind the wheel of a 400HP rocket and navigate through traffic on a daily basis?
Again, this crosses over into a "my free rights as an American" type thing, but over and over you see the same people wrecking and killing strapped into a car like this.
It's rarely the experienced driver who does so.
Completely isolated case in point? Last year...fresh from seeing "Fast and Furious II", teenager (17) takes mom's C5 and races down a major thoroughfare, pumped with a false sense of invincibility and bulging with a high dose of teen testosterone fueled by the young pretty seated next to him. Result? Two dead. And the parents were in law enforcement as a career. WHY would you allow a teen driver access to a car like this???
Anyhow, that's really off the topic, but raising liability issues against someone who legally builds a fast car is B.S. to me. If you buy it, if you drive it, you should understand and accept the responsibility for what you have strapped yourself into.
EVERY car is a lethal weapon. Ours just happen to be able to do twice as much damager twice as fast as the next guy...
11-28-2004, 09:14 PM
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Phoenix & OJ,
I don't see how anybody should be able to raise a liability issue about the HP ratings either, but we do live in a country that allows people to sue for even dumber things (ex. McDonald's getting sued for serving hot coffee at the drive thru and the idiot customer spilling it their own lap) so I can understand why the dealer would get nervous about liability.
OJ, I wasn't taking it to seriously - I just didn't think that the 345 HP came on the late model Firehawks. So I guess I am correct.
I don't see how anybody should be able to raise a liability issue about the HP ratings either, but we do live in a country that allows people to sue for even dumber things (ex. McDonald's getting sued for serving hot coffee at the drive thru and the idiot customer spilling it their own lap) so I can understand why the dealer would get nervous about liability.
OJ, I wasn't taking it to seriously - I just didn't think that the 345 HP came on the late model Firehawks. So I guess I am correct.
11-29-2004, 12:58 AM
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Guys. I had a talk with Matt At the Year One Commerce Challenge in August. It seems that GM has owned the Blackbird name since the 1997 T/A year model. You could order the car with a decal package from GM on all Black 1997 T/A's.The liability issue comes from GM lawyers due to Carl Black using the Blackbird name on the Modified cars GMMG was building for Carl Black Pontiac in GA. If it was a HP rating liability GMMG would not be putting 600HP on the hoods of the 30 modified SS DicK Harrell cars being built and being sold at Berger Chevrolet. Hey Carrillo get me a pic and a price on that Blackbird. I haven't bought any new toys in the pass few months.
11-29-2004, 01:10 AM
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Carrillo, The Black car has the same Vin as a car that was sold about 4-5 months ago on E-bay looks like somebody is trying to make a few quick bucks on the same car he bought a few months ago. They did make an article about the Blackbird in Pontiac High Performance and it was Blackbird PR-1 they used for the acticle, back then the car was still owned by GMMG and Carl Black. For the Record 8 total including 2 Prototype Year One Edition Blackbirds were built 2 prototypes PR-1 Carrillo's Car , PR-2 first owned by Year One ,now owned by a guy named George modified to Phase 2. The 2 convertible cars are # 1 My Car and # 10 a Phase 2 modified car in GA. The other 4 regular production cars are T-Tops.
11-29-2004, 09:18 PM
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BIRD MAN,
Not trying to disagree about the liability thing but, If GM owned the rights to the BLACKBIRD name then how was Carl Black even able to get the 1st run of 50 cars built using that name? Seems like GM would have said something early on in the production/ advertising. Also why then did they halt the production of the Anniversary Edition cars (like mine) at 17 rather than go up to 100 as planned?
As to the phase 2 & 3 cars - my understanding on them is that they don't come w/ any factory warranty & may not be considered under the same guidelines (as far as liability goes) as the 380hp cars? Is this true?
Not trying to argue points, just trying to learn more about the situations surrounding building of these cars. Thanks
Not trying to disagree about the liability thing but, If GM owned the rights to the BLACKBIRD name then how was Carl Black even able to get the 1st run of 50 cars built using that name? Seems like GM would have said something early on in the production/ advertising. Also why then did they halt the production of the Anniversary Edition cars (like mine) at 17 rather than go up to 100 as planned?
As to the phase 2 & 3 cars - my understanding on them is that they don't come w/ any factory warranty & may not be considered under the same guidelines (as far as liability goes) as the 380hp cars? Is this true?
Not trying to argue points, just trying to learn more about the situations surrounding building of these cars. Thanks