Anybody think '02s are gonna be collectible?
02-25-2003, 08:47 PM
#1
Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? Does anybody think these cars are gonna be worth anything in a few years? The salesman that I bought my car from was trying to tell me that "These cars will be the '55 Chevys and '69 Camaros of this generation". I don't see it happening. Maybe the few rare ones, the first and last produced, etc, but not all of them. What do you think. As you can see in sig, I'm not too worried about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
02-25-2003, 09:18 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? Sure, in 30 years excellent condition examples of all the LS1 year F-bodies will be valuble. They will in fact be the old school muscle of tomorrow. Why wouldn't they be? Not like there's tons of muscle cars being built these days...
What did a '70 Chevelle sell for new with a big block? $4-5,000 maybe? Now they'll go for $25-30,000+ in excellent condition. What's a new V8 F-body go for on adverage last year? $28,000? Maybe in 30 years one that is perfect will be worth two or three times that much. Maybe not. Cars are rarely a good investment though, you could have made a lot more out of that $28K in 30 years than just double the money (minus all the costs of keeping the car perfect).
Oh, and BTW, your mods don't kill the car's value any. Heads & cam can be swapped without issue, same with exhaust.
What did a '70 Chevelle sell for new with a big block? $4-5,000 maybe? Now they'll go for $25-30,000+ in excellent condition. What's a new V8 F-body go for on adverage last year? $28,000? Maybe in 30 years one that is perfect will be worth two or three times that much. Maybe not. Cars are rarely a good investment though, you could have made a lot more out of that $28K in 30 years than just double the money (minus all the costs of keeping the car perfect).
Oh, and BTW, your mods don't kill the car's value any. Heads & cam can be swapped without issue, same with exhaust.
02-26-2003, 09:55 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I bet a 2001-2002 A4 with converter will be the ones people will want. Those cars are already legendary. They can get into 11's with ease with only drag radials.
02-26-2003, 10:03 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? MAYBE a 35th SS with zero miles....and that's a big MAYBE. The reason LS6 Chevelles sell for so much is the extremely limited production, and the fact that everyone realized what they were after that had been made. The LS1 cars were whored out and made in mass quantaties, especially the 2002s. Weren't there more SSs than Zs for 2002? Worth more?? Highly dobtful.
My 30th is the last Anniversary TA ever made, and was in strict limitied quantity, whereas the 35th SS/CE TA was made for as many as they could sell, correct?
My 30th won't be worth anything, so why would a 2002? Not trying to flame, just trying to talk some sense into people who think cars are investments? Remember 1990 ZR1s selling for $100k+, or the first Vipers? What about the Ferrari F40 selling for $1M+, and now they're worth $250k with no miles on them?
My 30th is the last Anniversary TA ever made, and was in strict limitied quantity, whereas the 35th SS/CE TA was made for as many as they could sell, correct?
My 30th won't be worth anything, so why would a 2002? Not trying to flame, just trying to talk some sense into people who think cars are investments? Remember 1990 ZR1s selling for $100k+, or the first Vipers? What about the Ferrari F40 selling for $1M+, and now they're worth $250k with no miles on them?
02-26-2003, 10:53 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I agree with 30th TA, the lower the production numbers the better chance of collector interest in the future. Not always the case though, my dad bought an 1989 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am (1555 built), the dealer charged him $40k for the car, (Shaver Pontiac in Thousand Oaks, CA), now almost 15 years later, TTAs with super low miles sell for less than 25k, sometimes substantially less. So its kind of a crap shoot.
Regards,
Regards,
02-26-2003, 11:01 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dug:
<strong> I bet a 2001-2002 A4 with converter will be the ones people will want. Those cars are already legendary. They can get into 11's with ease with only drag radials. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you kidding around? Did I miss something here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ?
Regards,
<strong> I bet a 2001-2002 A4 with converter will be the ones people will want. Those cars are already legendary. They can get into 11's with ease with only drag radials. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you kidding around? Did I miss something here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ?
Regards,
02-26-2003, 07:30 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I bet a 2001-2002 A4 with converter will be the ones people will want. Those cars are already legendary. They can get into 11's with ease with only drag radials.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">’01-’02 are only a couple tenths faster than the earlier years on average. Not a big enough difference to make them more valuable in my opinion.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">MAYBE a 35th SS with zero miles....and that's a big MAYBE. The reason LS6 Chevelles sell for so much is the extremely limited production, and the fact that everyone realized what they were after that had been made.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wasn’t referring to the LS6 cars when I said $25-30K. I’ve seen 396 and LS5 454s sell in that range. I’ve seen LS6s go for more like $40,000+.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The LS1 cars were whored out and made in mass quantaties, especially the 2002s. Weren't there more SSs than Zs for 2002? Worth more?? Highly dobtful.
My 30th is the last Anniversary TA ever made, and was in strict limitied quantity, whereas the 35th SS/CE TA was made for as many as they could sell, correct?
My 30th won't be worth anything, so why would a 2002? Not trying to flame, just trying to talk some sense into people who think cars are investments? Remember 1990 ZR1s selling for $100k+, or the first Vipers? What about the Ferrari F40 selling for $1M+, and now they're worth $250k with no miles on them?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. I think your 30th will be worth more than you think if you keep it perfect. I think this is true of all LS1 cars. How many people do you think are currently keeping their F-bodies in perfect condition? Very few, most are peoples’ daily drivers which will need restorations in 10-20 years to be perfect, or race cars with too many huge mods that leave scars, like major chassis work (cages), different engines (iron blocks), M6 to A4 conversions, TH350/400 conversions, etc. Little stuff like heads/cam/exhaust and such is not really an issue. Many show quality cars of the 30+ year range have had the motors rebuilt with some cam and head/valve work anyway.
Look at the third gens. They built a TON more of those year for year than LS1 cars. Most years of third gen production, there were over 100,000 units built, versus the 70,000 or so made per year in the late fourth gen run. I just recently saw a privately owned mint ’87 Formula 350 with 15,000 miles on it sell for $13,000 (he was asking $15K). That’s only a few thousand less than the car was new.
It’s all about how common it is to find an excellent condition one in later years, not how many were built to start with. Why? Because as most of these (and our) cars were/are daily drivers, many of them find their way to the scrap yard after just a decade or two.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with 30th TA, the lower the production numbers the better chance of collector interest in the future. Not always the case though, my dad bought an 1989 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am (1555 built), the dealer charged him $40k for the car, (Shaver Pontiac in Thousand Oaks, CA), now almost 15 years later, TTAs with super low miles sell for less than 25k, sometimes substantially less. So its kind of a crap shoot.
Regards,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This I agree with. It will take more than 15 years in most cases to see your car return to the price you paid for it. BUT, in the case of Regal GNXs (547 built), I’ve seen them sell for near $40K in mint condition with super low miles recently, and that’s just a 16 year old car. I don’t think GNXs sold for much more than $40K new.
Don’t get me wrong here, I do agree 100% that any car is almost always a bad investment, and I would never buy a car with the hopes to make a profit in 30 years. That’s just plain irresponsible investment behavior, but, I would say that it’s very reasonable (and probable) that these cars will eventually return to their original value after a few decades if they are in excellent shape. Still not investment wise though, I know I could do waaaaaaay better than to break even investing $30K after 30 years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> But you get my point...
Buy the car because you like it, and keep it nice if you choose to. It’s all about whatever makes you happy. Personally, I’m keeping my car in perfect condition. No bad weather, no commuting miles, and excellent care all the time. I’m not doing that in the hopes to make money on it though. I just want the car to be perfect because that’s what makes me happy. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">MAYBE a 35th SS with zero miles....and that's a big MAYBE. The reason LS6 Chevelles sell for so much is the extremely limited production, and the fact that everyone realized what they were after that had been made.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wasn’t referring to the LS6 cars when I said $25-30K. I’ve seen 396 and LS5 454s sell in that range. I’ve seen LS6s go for more like $40,000+.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The LS1 cars were whored out and made in mass quantaties, especially the 2002s. Weren't there more SSs than Zs for 2002? Worth more?? Highly dobtful.
My 30th is the last Anniversary TA ever made, and was in strict limitied quantity, whereas the 35th SS/CE TA was made for as many as they could sell, correct?
My 30th won't be worth anything, so why would a 2002? Not trying to flame, just trying to talk some sense into people who think cars are investments? Remember 1990 ZR1s selling for $100k+, or the first Vipers? What about the Ferrari F40 selling for $1M+, and now they're worth $250k with no miles on them?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. I think your 30th will be worth more than you think if you keep it perfect. I think this is true of all LS1 cars. How many people do you think are currently keeping their F-bodies in perfect condition? Very few, most are peoples’ daily drivers which will need restorations in 10-20 years to be perfect, or race cars with too many huge mods that leave scars, like major chassis work (cages), different engines (iron blocks), M6 to A4 conversions, TH350/400 conversions, etc. Little stuff like heads/cam/exhaust and such is not really an issue. Many show quality cars of the 30+ year range have had the motors rebuilt with some cam and head/valve work anyway.
Look at the third gens. They built a TON more of those year for year than LS1 cars. Most years of third gen production, there were over 100,000 units built, versus the 70,000 or so made per year in the late fourth gen run. I just recently saw a privately owned mint ’87 Formula 350 with 15,000 miles on it sell for $13,000 (he was asking $15K). That’s only a few thousand less than the car was new.
It’s all about how common it is to find an excellent condition one in later years, not how many were built to start with. Why? Because as most of these (and our) cars were/are daily drivers, many of them find their way to the scrap yard after just a decade or two.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with 30th TA, the lower the production numbers the better chance of collector interest in the future. Not always the case though, my dad bought an 1989 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am (1555 built), the dealer charged him $40k for the car, (Shaver Pontiac in Thousand Oaks, CA), now almost 15 years later, TTAs with super low miles sell for less than 25k, sometimes substantially less. So its kind of a crap shoot.
Regards,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This I agree with. It will take more than 15 years in most cases to see your car return to the price you paid for it. BUT, in the case of Regal GNXs (547 built), I’ve seen them sell for near $40K in mint condition with super low miles recently, and that’s just a 16 year old car. I don’t think GNXs sold for much more than $40K new.
Don’t get me wrong here, I do agree 100% that any car is almost always a bad investment, and I would never buy a car with the hopes to make a profit in 30 years. That’s just plain irresponsible investment behavior, but, I would say that it’s very reasonable (and probable) that these cars will eventually return to their original value after a few decades if they are in excellent shape. Still not investment wise though, I know I could do waaaaaaay better than to break even investing $30K after 30 years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> But you get my point...
Buy the car because you like it, and keep it nice if you choose to. It’s all about whatever makes you happy. Personally, I’m keeping my car in perfect condition. No bad weather, no commuting miles, and excellent care all the time. I’m not doing that in the hopes to make money on it though. I just want the car to be perfect because that’s what makes me happy. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
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02-26-2003, 10:16 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I think my car will be pretty rare, I'm sure if I put all the orginal parts back in it would be that is... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
But..
Its 1 out of 540 made, came loaded w/every option...
There were at lot more 02's then 01's... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
But..
Its 1 out of 540 made, came loaded w/every option...
There were at lot more 02's then 01's... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
02-26-2003, 10:27 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I doubt it'd be much of a collectible or at least worth a ton
newer cars last forever... not like older cars where it's unusual to find a mint condition one
newer cars last forever... not like older cars where it's unusual to find a mint condition one
02-26-2003, 10:34 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I think a true collectible would be a car that was rare from the factory and taking it home and putting a cover over it....put no miles on it.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Then were dealing w/something... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
There was a guy locally who had 1 of 6 purple WS6's, he got offered 85,000 for the car by a collector and turned it down...
Then were dealing w/something... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
There was a guy locally who had 1 of 6 purple WS6's, he got offered 85,000 for the car by a collector and turned it down...
02-27-2003, 12:16 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? 1 of 6 is cool, but could not one have eighteen coats of whatever paint to bring them around to what an $80k number and make substantial cash?
02-27-2003, 01:06 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I would have taken that $80K and walked home laughing at the guy. Its still only a Firebird, it might be worth $80K in 30 years if he doesnt put another mile on it. I would have sold it, bought a used GTS for around $50K and had myself a nice summer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Our cars arent going to be worth anything because I'm sure GM will come out with a 5th generation in the next couple years.
<small>[ February 27, 2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: I8COBRA ]</small>
Our cars arent going to be worth anything because I'm sure GM will come out with a 5th generation in the next couple years.
<small>[ February 27, 2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: I8COBRA ]</small>
02-27-2003, 02:17 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by I8COBRA:
<strong> I would have taken that $80K and walked home laughing at the guy. Its still only a Firebird, it might be worth $80K in 30 years if he doesnt put another mile on it. I would have sold it, bought a used GTS for around $50K and had myself a nice summer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Our cars arent going to be worth anything because I'm sure GM will come out with a 5th generation in the next couple years. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True....but there's no foreseeable future for the birds, so i'm trying to keep mine nice.
<strong> I would have taken that $80K and walked home laughing at the guy. Its still only a Firebird, it might be worth $80K in 30 years if he doesnt put another mile on it. I would have sold it, bought a used GTS for around $50K and had myself a nice summer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Our cars arent going to be worth anything because I'm sure GM will come out with a 5th generation in the next couple years. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True....but there's no foreseeable future for the birds, so i'm trying to keep mine nice.
02-27-2003, 08:17 AM
#14
Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? The reason that 50s, 60s and early 70s muscle cars are "collectible" was because of options.
The desireable cars have lots of creature comfort options with big or obscure motor/trans packages. For example a '57 Chevy convertible with fuel injection and a 4 speed or a 70 Chevelle SS 454 4 speed convertible or even a newer Grand Prix GTP because of the super charger ... maybe ...
Cars today just don't have the mechanical options like in years past.
Wheel and striping options don't make a car "collectible".
The desireable cars have lots of creature comfort options with big or obscure motor/trans packages. For example a '57 Chevy convertible with fuel injection and a 4 speed or a 70 Chevelle SS 454 4 speed convertible or even a newer Grand Prix GTP because of the super charger ... maybe ...
Cars today just don't have the mechanical options like in years past.
Wheel and striping options don't make a car "collectible".
02-27-2003, 09:38 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? If you had to pick a 4th gen for collectability, I would say the 1997 LT4 cars would be your best bet. Only time that combination was available. Engine and transmission combinations are what really drive the values of classic muscle cars. Colors become important as a subset of the previous.
02-27-2003, 10:46 AM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? Well, I used to frequent www.zr1.net and I recall a guy having a 1990 ZR1, with only 5 mile son it, had just been sitting, and they stated because he never drove it, it would need too much replaced, and it was only worth like $20k. Yes, you need to keep it in pristine condition, but you also need to keep the miles of it, and who the hell wants to do that?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Cars of the 50s, 60s, and 70s are worth so much bvecause of the crazy option combos. Now you get 1 motor, 2 transmissions, and that's about it! Good luck, just don't plan on putting your kids in college by selling your "collectibe" 2002 down the road.
02-27-2003, 01:49 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? Some things never seem like they will be collectible until down the road. I have a 1972 Heavy Chevy Chevelle. Try finding a few of those.
Most people made them into SS clones and repainted them with SS stripes because the Heavy was an obviously lesser vehicle with lesser value AT THAT TIME. Now every big city like Jax has 50 SS Chevelles and no Heavy Chevy's. They were made in 71.5 and 72 only. Its basically a cheap version of an SS, no power controls, no guages, AM radio, bench seat, but it has the SBC and BBC engine options (Except 454), hood pins, SS suspension, and some Heavy-only interior panels and grille. They are extremely rare now because people thought they were cheap back then. Maybe a 1LE Camaro will be harder to find than a Red 35th SS?
Most people made them into SS clones and repainted them with SS stripes because the Heavy was an obviously lesser vehicle with lesser value AT THAT TIME. Now every big city like Jax has 50 SS Chevelles and no Heavy Chevy's. They were made in 71.5 and 72 only. Its basically a cheap version of an SS, no power controls, no guages, AM radio, bench seat, but it has the SBC and BBC engine options (Except 454), hood pins, SS suspension, and some Heavy-only interior panels and grille. They are extremely rare now because people thought they were cheap back then. Maybe a 1LE Camaro will be harder to find than a Red 35th SS?
02-27-2003, 07:26 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? Cars are meant to be DRIVEN! It makes me angry to see nice cars with zero miles on them. There is a guy in one of the Ontario Camaro Clubs who bought a new 35th SS and never drives it. It's only got 20 miles on it, and will never go up. He doesn't start it or anything, just pushes it onto a trailer and off a trailer for car shows. How pathetic. It's not as if it's a rare car or anything, they made what, 5000 of them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
03-02-2003, 10:59 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? I'm just another guy who does not think that the '02 LS1 F-bodies will be worth much 10, 20, or 30+ years down the road(even if there is no 5th generation platform). There is not much demand for them now(hence the end of production) and I don't really see there being any demand for them in the future(long after production stopped).
Ask yourself this: How many people are going to be willing to pay top $$$ for a once-"common" 4th gen F-body many, many years from now? Even if the car is MINT w/ virtually no mileage, I truly believe you'll be hard-pressed to find someone to indulge your sense of reality. There *might* be a big-time enthusiast or two out there willing help out this cause...However, they'll be few and far between. Remember, these car's will only be worth what others are willing to pay for them in the future. So anything is possible I guess.
But NO, I don't see them being collectibles. Enjoy what you have today because to most, they'll just be a distant memory before you know it.
Mike
Ask yourself this: How many people are going to be willing to pay top $$$ for a once-"common" 4th gen F-body many, many years from now? Even if the car is MINT w/ virtually no mileage, I truly believe you'll be hard-pressed to find someone to indulge your sense of reality. There *might* be a big-time enthusiast or two out there willing help out this cause...However, they'll be few and far between. Remember, these car's will only be worth what others are willing to pay for them in the future. So anything is possible I guess.
But NO, I don't see them being collectibles. Enjoy what you have today because to most, they'll just be a distant memory before you know it.
Mike
03-02-2003, 11:03 PM
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Re: Anybody think "02s are gonna be collectible? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Patman:
<strong> Cars are meant to be DRIVEN! It makes me angry to see nice cars with zero miles on them. There is a guy in one of the Ontario Camaro Clubs who bought a new 35th SS and never drives it. It's only got 20 miles on it, and will never go up. He doesn't start it or anything, just pushes it onto a trailer and off a trailer for car shows. How pathetic. It's not as if it's a rare car or anything, they made what, 5000 of them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, that is really stupid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> At leaaaaast drive the thing a few miles a month. <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> But it is his *money* so it is not really our concern anyways. We're all free to do what we want with our $$$.
You have fun driving yours Pat(A4 sucker!) and I'll have fun driving mine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<small>[ March 02, 2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: 2000LS1Z28 ]</small>
<strong> Cars are meant to be DRIVEN! It makes me angry to see nice cars with zero miles on them. There is a guy in one of the Ontario Camaro Clubs who bought a new 35th SS and never drives it. It's only got 20 miles on it, and will never go up. He doesn't start it or anything, just pushes it onto a trailer and off a trailer for car shows. How pathetic. It's not as if it's a rare car or anything, they made what, 5000 of them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, that is really stupid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> At leaaaaast drive the thing a few miles a month. <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> But it is his *money* so it is not really our concern anyways. We're all free to do what we want with our $$$.
You have fun driving yours Pat(A4 sucker!) and I'll have fun driving mine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<small>[ March 02, 2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: 2000LS1Z28 ]</small>