Ju1ce

I raced a 1995 GT that has a 306 with heads/cam and all the goodies. 3.73 gears, drag radials etc... He made 360whp on a Mustang dyno, my GTO made 385whp also on a Mustang Dyno.

We ran from 45mph to about 120. He stayed with me until I shifted to 3rd, I started to walk out on him. Shifted to 4th at about 100 with a solid 2-3 carlengths, then stopped at 120ish up 4-5 cars.

What's funny is this kid is totally ignorant about GTO's. He thinks that header/tune GTO's cant make more than 350whp and have a curb weight pushing 4000lbs. My car weighed 3770 with me in it (I'm about 170) on the scale at Englishtown. I imagine he's a little lighter, maybe 100-200lbs. That's obviously not enough to negate the 25whp advantage, not to mention power under the curve.

I guess no matter which way you try to spin it near stock 364 is still > h/c/i 306.

Irunelevens

It all depends on the H/C/I. They can make anywhere from 290rwhp-475rwhp depending on the combination. Good kill.

Hak

Nice kill OP. Was expecting it to be a lot closer, especially with him having the edge in weight and you in HP. He probably has more then 200 pounds on you. For what it's worth, my 2000 GT auto weighed in at 3260. Like you said, he may be lacking some power under the curve. Good kill nonetheless.

Sarge_13

iTrader: (1)

475rwhp on a 306? bullshit.

Nice run OP. That same engine in a lighter Fox body should have made for a better race.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

I've seen a lot more than that out of a 306. I won't speak about the driving manners of the cars, but I've seen it.

Sarge_13

iTrader: (1)

Unless its an all out drag car with a built block and a huge donkey dick cam then I don't see more than 420RWHP out of an N/A 306. I agree I've seen more but that was with a completely unstreetable drag car.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

My brother has gotten over 500 rwhp out of a 306. He drove it on the street but I damn sure wouldn't consider it a street car. It was nasty and he didn't take it out often but it was tagged and insured. I was just playing devils advocate. A streetable 306 would be lucky to hit 450 and that would be a stretch, more than likely your estimate of 420 would be more realistic.

sway99bird

iTrader: (22)

Man I thought it was going to be closer than what you stated sounds like a good race wish you would have gotted a video.

Irunelevens

Yeah, I was definitely going on the extreme end for both of those numbers. If you do h/c/i and only get 290rwhp, you need to be slapped.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

good kill. looks like he should have stepped up his build to a bigger stroker.

Sarge_13

iTrader: (1)

Mine only made 330rwhp at 7k but ran an 11.9

Chris Arnold

What are you guys talking about? No... You will never run into a stock blocked 87-95 n/a streetcar that makes 470rwhp with only 306 cubes. In fact, I defy you to show me one that meets the criteria:

1. stock HO block
2. Any H/C/I package you choose
3. 306 c.i. or less
4. 470 rwhp or more
5. n/a

See, the upper limit of feasibility for n/a power for most gasoline engines is in the 2 crank hp per cubic inch range. Unfortunately, the problem with the 5.0 HO blocks is that you can't rev them enough to get to that upper limit. Anything beyond roughly 7200 rpm and main girdles, and engine braces still can't prevent the main caps from walking.

The 5.0 is my favorite motor in the world, but I still have to call BS on this:

And Manalishi, if your brother made 500 rwhp out of a 306, it was either boosted, nitroused, or had an aftermarket block. So, your reference isn't a good counterpoint for the argument at hand. Once again, I defy anyone to show me a 500+ rwhp 306 SBF using a 5.0 HO block, race oriented or otherwise. It might be possible, but only just... and by a damned good engine builder, and it still wouldn't be something you'd ever run into on the street.

Chris Arnold

Oh, and in a street gas (93 octane), somewhat reasonably cammed 302/306 360 rwhp is phenomenal. That's so good, that unless I looked under the hood and saw nothing but premium parts, I wouldn't believe it either --> guys tend to exaggerate what their cars can do. Mine made "only" about 320 rwhp and walked on a lot of other 302s that made 400+rwhp, or so they said, including a few blown 302s....

A typical H/C/I 302 street car is going to make between 260 and 350 rwhp with very few outliers.

Irunelevens

Like I said, I was going to the extreme on those numbers. If you make 260rwhp on a H/C/I 5.0 you wasted your time and quite a bit of money. And who said anything about stock H.O. shortblock? We were talking displacement.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

It was a production block, with a lot of work done. It was NA but it was hardly just H/C/I. He drove it on the street occasionally. But you believe what you want and I will know what I know.

Ju1ce

I agree.

Why? There's kids here that do GT40 heads or whatever with the e303 cam and are LUCKY to make 260. Isn't that the cheapest most common setup?

Newskool Mach

Nice kill OP.

Irunelevens

If you do GT40 heads/intake and an E303 with full bolt-ons, I am going to assume that you would make atleast as much power as my SOHC 4.6 made. Tons of Mustang guys do full exhaust anyway, so I would assume most that do a h/c/i swap on a 5.0 would too.

Chris Arnold

Ok... don't get so defensive. Just show me that I'm wrong, please. I would love to see even a single example of a production HO block making 500rwhp n/a without a stroker kit. Even with a stroker kit, that'd be awesome! It's not that I want to believe that a 302 SBF can't do it. I'd much prefer to be able to brag about a 500rwhp 302/306 to my bowtie buddies. I'm a 5.0 guy, after all. But, I know their limits... at least I think I do. I welcome any reasonable documentation to the contrary.

Exactly! GT40 heads can be had for next to nothing. A lot of guys will take the things off of Explorer engines and put them on their 5.0 for a total investment of a couple hundred dollars. 5.0s dyno 190-200 rwhp-ish stock. They pick up 50 or so rwhp, and it's an awesome investment on a budget. It's not going to be a world beater by any stretch of the imagination, but it'll be a little more fun, and you can't beat the bang for the buck. Or, like me and the other fanatics willing to empty out the wallet to make real power, you could go out and buy the premium aluminum heads, a custom cam, and a good intake with all the supporting bolt-ons for a few thousand dollars for another 60-70 rwhp. Some guys would rather not invest that kind of money in a 15+ year old car.

I understand your point about displacement. It's still misleading to anyone who reads your earlier comment.

The OP mentioned a '95 mustang with H/C/I. I think it's a pretty safe assumption that the mustang in question has a stock block. What percentage of those setups do you think is running a ~$2k block, and would lose to a 380rwhp GTO? I'll go out on a limb and say that it's pretty close to 0%. No one spends 2k on a monster block to make 360rwhp on the street. That could be done using a stock block and stock displacement. I'd also estimate that 95% - probably more - of those that spend the coin on an aftermarket block are not going to stay at stock displacement. The other 5% aren't running their cars on the street - they're at the track in displacement limited classes.

More to the point, when you said it depends on the H/C/I, that alone implies a stock shortblock. Else, you should specify an aftermarket block. In which case it wouldn't "all depend on the h/c/i." It would depend on a hell of a lot more. If you turn a 302/306 to 9000 rpm, then making 500rwhp would not be any problem at all. But turn a stock HO block to 9000 rpm and well... you'd only make it to about 8k before it tore itself apart. I'd love to watch the video of that motor, but I sure as hell wouldn't be there in person.

necrocannibal

iTrader: (5)

Ju1ce EVERYONE thinks GTOs are over 4000 pounds so thats not a surprise.