Honda S2000 vs Jetta
02-20-2011, 10:25 PM
#41
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For one, theres 10x as many LS's out there then GSR's so alot more idiots half *** boosting them and breaking them.
GSR has higher compression, shorter stroke, and oil squirters to keep the stock cast pistons cool so that may have to do with it somewhat.
The main reason GSR's have "better flowing heads" is mainly just the larger valves. A P8R non vtec head has the same size valves, and flow benches almost identical. Better in some cases
Last edited by LightningTeg; 02-20-2011 at 10:37 PM.
02-21-2011, 09:54 AM
#42
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The LS head can work just fine, but as you know - vtec creates more power on the lobes than non-vtec..
So you can build either 1, just GSR head would make more (with all supporting parts, pistons rods, bearings).. The benefit of an LS block is the stroke and durability of the crank.. the stroke makes more torque and can take some SERIOUS power without breaking. Best combination in my opinion is a LS block and a vtec head. (LSVTEC)
02-21-2011, 10:15 AM
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Pistons/Rods of the LS are your initial limitation which is actually ~280whp... ask me how i know lol.
The LS head can work just fine, but as you know - vtec creates more power on the lobes than non-vtec..
So you can build either 1, just GSR head would make more (with all supporting parts, pistons rods, bearings).. The benefit of an LS block is the stroke and durability of the crank.. the stroke makes more torque and can take some SERIOUS power without breaking. Best combination in my opinion is a LS block and a vtec head. (LSVTEC)
The LS head can work just fine, but as you know - vtec creates more power on the lobes than non-vtec..
So you can build either 1, just GSR head would make more (with all supporting parts, pistons rods, bearings).. The benefit of an LS block is the stroke and durability of the crank.. the stroke makes more torque and can take some SERIOUS power without breaking. Best combination in my opinion is a LS block and a vtec head. (LSVTEC)
02-21-2011, 10:21 AM
#44
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I've heard durability too, but I am no Honda Tech. Yea, thats an option too. Probably may as well if you are doing pistons and rods, etc. Need to kill the oil squirters if you do that though right? Then you do need the dowel (spelling) pins
02-21-2011, 11:20 AM
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Granted Evo's are setup for boost from the factory, the golden rule is 400wtq for stock bottom end. People control the torque by how they ramp the timing and it makes the motor last longer. Unfortunately this wasn't really known until after mine had let go
02-21-2011, 11:25 AM
#46
02-21-2011, 11:43 AM
#47
What do is the torque limit, so to speak, on the motors.
Granted Evo's are setup for boost from the factory, the golden rule is 400wtq for stock bottom end. People control the torque by how they ramp the timing and it makes the motor last longer. Unfortunately this wasn't really known until after mine had let go
Granted Evo's are setup for boost from the factory, the golden rule is 400wtq for stock bottom end. People control the torque by how they ramp the timing and it makes the motor last longer. Unfortunately this wasn't really known until after mine had let go
02-21-2011, 01:04 PM
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Well forged pistons dont need oil squirters so the benefit of more oil pressure from plugging them is why most people do it.
02-21-2011, 01:23 PM
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First, the better cooling is beneficial to any piston.
If you want higher oil pressure run a high pressure pump.
Lastly, high oil pressure is not beneficial in the vast majority of applications. More pressure does not mean more lubrication, so to take from the pistons when it's not going to have much, if any benefit for the bearings makes no sense to me.
02-21-2011, 01:26 PM
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That seems retarded to me.
First, the better cooling is beneficial to any piston.
If you want higher oil pressure run a high pressure pump.
Lastly, high oil pressure is not beneficial in the vast majority of applications. More pressure does not mean more lubrication, so to take from the pistons when it's not going to have much, if any benefit for the bearings makes no sense to me.
First, the better cooling is beneficial to any piston.
If you want higher oil pressure run a high pressure pump.
Lastly, high oil pressure is not beneficial in the vast majority of applications. More pressure does not mean more lubrication, so to take from the pistons when it's not going to have much, if any benefit for the bearings makes no sense to me.
In our Honda race motors, we plug the oil squirters it's so hot in there that the oil drops that hit the piston cause dramatic temp. changes within the cyl. and thats a no no atleast for us. I have had long discutions with Earl Lasky (no one knows hondas better) on why the oil squirters are bad.. Now for a daily driven street car with 400-700 they are fine, no plus no minus... But with a high output motor, high temp high stress, it's just another factor in the stress dynamic of the cyl. and that sudden change is all a piston or the cly. wall needs to break. In our race motors we have a 2.2L 4cyl that has an Whp of 850ish in good weather thats 212 hp per cyl see how we need to maintain a constant.. :devillook
02-21-2011, 01:38 PM
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Ah, so they don't do it for higher oil pressure, that's just a side effect.
I wonder if hondas warp cylinders from the temp difference or something? Seems like that might be an issue.
I'm sure temps in 850+hp mitsus are similar to those in hondas, and mitsu guys never plug oil squirters. Guys who boost the N/A cars (no oil squirters factory) machine the block and add them to extend piston life.
Our bocks are a thick chunk of iron, so i'm sure the thermal expansion is VERY different than most of the honda blocks.
I wonder if hondas warp cylinders from the temp difference or something? Seems like that might be an issue.
I'm sure temps in 850+hp mitsus are similar to those in hondas, and mitsu guys never plug oil squirters. Guys who boost the N/A cars (no oil squirters factory) machine the block and add them to extend piston life.
Our bocks are a thick chunk of iron, so i'm sure the thermal expansion is VERY different than most of the honda blocks.
02-21-2011, 04:33 PM
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Ah, so they don't do it for higher oil pressure, that's just a side effect.
I wonder if hondas warp cylinders from the temp difference or something? Seems like that might be an issue.
I'm sure temps in 850+hp mitsus are similar to those in hondas, and mitsu guys never plug oil squirters. Guys who boost the N/A cars (no oil squirters factory) machine the block and add them to extend piston life.
Our bocks are a thick chunk of iron, so i'm sure the thermal expansion is VERY different than most of the honda blocks.
I wonder if hondas warp cylinders from the temp difference or something? Seems like that might be an issue.
I'm sure temps in 850+hp mitsus are similar to those in hondas, and mitsu guys never plug oil squirters. Guys who boost the N/A cars (no oil squirters factory) machine the block and add them to extend piston life.
Our bocks are a thick chunk of iron, so i'm sure the thermal expansion is VERY different than most of the honda blocks.
Stock sleeves are iron with aluminum outer shell. Aftermarket usually goes to a solid ductile iron sleeve. But most of them are still open deck.
