Big blower 03 Cobra vs built 3V vs juiced stroker mustang vs H/C Ls1 Camaro **vid
10-14-2011, 05:04 AM
#23
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Im shocked no one has given credit to the SBF yet.. 410w with a small shot did alot better than i thought it would..
SBF FTMFW
Sorry i had to have my moment, been considering going cam n2o fbody or sbf foxbody
lol
SBF FTMFW
Sorry i had to have my moment, been considering going cam n2o fbody or sbf foxbody
lol
10-14-2011, 08:20 AM
#25
) SBF's can suck a big one :engird:But seriously, all in all it did well against some modulars pushing big time boost.
10-14-2011, 08:49 AM
#26
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Haha this made me laugh. I know what you mean its just really funny how you said it.
10-14-2011, 10:58 AM
#27
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My stock motor/ heads cam setup was able to beat the same SBF on motor. Nitrous to nitrous i feel i could have taken him as well. He has probably 5X the money into his setup than i had in mine AND i had 64 less cubic inches! (sorry, i have to use the mustang guy's argument when i have the chance! ) SBF's can suck a big one :engird:
But seriously, all in all it did well against some modulars pushing big time boost.
) SBF's can suck a big one :engird:But seriously, all in all it did well against some modulars pushing big time boost.
Also ive been looking at 351w stroker builds with the price of car and tranny.. and i have been looking at h,c,i fbody cars and i cant see where a 410w build would cost 5x more than a h,c,i fbody..
but idk much so take what i say with a grain of salt lol i still have alot of researching to do.
10-14-2011, 11:16 AM
#28
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Not wanting to derail the thread; but just want to clear up something about the SBF.
GM did a real good job with the LS from the factory. The stock heads are better than a lot of aftermarket heads for SBF's and SBC's.
The problem is most of the time people put too small of a cylinder head on the SBF's (can't speak for the SBC's) and it chokes them down.
IMO, the LS engines don't have as much of a problem with that since their heads are so much better from the get go. Not saying that it doesn't happen with LS engines, because I have seen a local guy put the stock 241 heads on a 408 stroker. It doesn't perform up to LSx crowd expectations; yet still puts down around 450 to the back tire.
GM did a real good job with the LS from the factory. The stock heads are better than a lot of aftermarket heads for SBF's and SBC's.
The problem is most of the time people put too small of a cylinder head on the SBF's (can't speak for the SBC's) and it chokes them down.
IMO, the LS engines don't have as much of a problem with that since their heads are so much better from the get go. Not saying that it doesn't happen with LS engines, because I have seen a local guy put the stock 241 heads on a 408 stroker. It doesn't perform up to LSx crowd expectations; yet still puts down around 450 to the back tire.
10-14-2011, 01:20 PM
#30
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Not wanting to derail the thread; but just want to clear up something about the SBF.
GM did a real good job with the LS from the factory. The stock heads are better than a lot of aftermarket heads for SBF's and SBC's.
The problem is most of the time people put too small of a cylinder head on the SBF's (can't speak for the SBC's) and it chokes them down.
IMO, the LS engines don't have as much of a problem with that since their heads are so much better from the get go. Not saying that it doesn't happen with LS engines, because I have seen a local guy put the stock 241 heads on a 408 stroker. It doesn't perform up to LSx crowd expectations; yet still puts down around 450 to the back tire.
GM did a real good job with the LS from the factory. The stock heads are better than a lot of aftermarket heads for SBF's and SBC's.
The problem is most of the time people put too small of a cylinder head on the SBF's (can't speak for the SBC's) and it chokes them down.
IMO, the LS engines don't have as much of a problem with that since their heads are so much better from the get go. Not saying that it doesn't happen with LS engines, because I have seen a local guy put the stock 241 heads on a 408 stroker. It doesn't perform up to LSx crowd expectations; yet still puts down around 450 to the back tire.
Your exactly right that is a more than fair enough explanation. And the same can be said about the cam choice of the typical SBF owner..
SBF guys tend to like the afr 205 and 225 and tfs 205 and 225 but the issue is thats too small for 351ci and up.. tfs 225 is a good budget option for 306-347 but if i built mine id go with something bigger along the lines of tfs 260 or something but then again id be shooting for 427ci and 500+ whp n/a
10-14-2011, 01:57 PM
#31
Your exactly right that is a more than fair enough explanation. And the same can be said about the cam choice of the typical SBF owner..
SBF guys tend to like the afr 205 and 225 and tfs 205 and 225 but the issue is thats too small for 351ci and up.. tfs 225 is a good budget option for 306-347 but if i built mine id go with something bigger along the lines of tfs 260 or something but then again id be shooting for 427ci and 500+ whp n/a
SBF guys tend to like the afr 205 and 225 and tfs 205 and 225 but the issue is thats too small for 351ci and up.. tfs 225 is a good budget option for 306-347 but if i built mine id go with something bigger along the lines of tfs 260 or something but then again id be shooting for 427ci and 500+ whp n/a
10-14-2011, 02:13 PM
#32
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Negative.
You can get also get a 240 TFS High Port or if you want to go bigger; then there are the Edelbrock Victor line of cylinder heads.
10-14-2011, 02:44 PM
#33
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Because 302 parts will work on a 302 people think they should.
Funny this comparison of small parts and outdated thinking is what brought me to LS1tech; there is a lot in common w/ SBFs and LS's(more similarities than to a SBC thats for sure). Went and found it but this post eludes to why some SBFs are entirely mediocore and some are quite impressive.
When discussing why most 302 based strokers make less power:
Physics havent changed and what works in one internal combustion engine is likely to work on another similair internal combustion engine. Fuel air and spark don't see the badge on the front.
Funny this comparison of small parts and outdated thinking is what brought me to LS1tech; there is a lot in common w/ SBFs and LS's(more similarities than to a SBC thats for sure). Went and found it but this post eludes to why some SBFs are entirely mediocore and some are quite impressive.
When discussing why most 302 based strokers make less power:
If I come here and said to use an AFR 205 head, 10.75:1 compression, Victor EFI, 90mm TB, 1 7/8 headers, 55mm roller cam bearings, on a 347 STREET combination, just about 99% on THIS BOARD would say things like:
"This ain't a race motor, this is a street car".
"The AFR heads are too big" [which is funny]
"The Victor EFI will have no tq down low" [which is funny]
"I cannot afford 55mm cam bearings"
"55mm cam bearings are for race cars" [which is funny]
"90mm TB on the street, you only need a 70mm" [which is funny]
That is just some of what you might hear.
But the above combination is basically what is needed to compare apples to apples. Oh ya, the LS-x's are 15* heads too, not 20* heads.
So all of you that preech dated mentality start talking, just go look at a LS-x based engine. Maybe one day you guys will listen.
"This ain't a race motor, this is a street car".
"The AFR heads are too big" [which is funny]
"The Victor EFI will have no tq down low" [which is funny]
"I cannot afford 55mm cam bearings"
"55mm cam bearings are for race cars" [which is funny]
"90mm TB on the street, you only need a 70mm" [which is funny]
That is just some of what you might hear.
But the above combination is basically what is needed to compare apples to apples. Oh ya, the LS-x's are 15* heads too, not 20* heads.
So all of you that preech dated mentality start talking, just go look at a LS-x based engine. Maybe one day you guys will listen.
10-14-2011, 03:26 PM
#34
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Because 302 parts will work on a 302 people think they should.
Funny this comparison of small parts and outdated thinking is what brought me to LS1tech; there is a lot in common w/ SBFs and LS's(more similarities than to a SBC thats for sure). Went and found it but this post eludes to why some SBFs are entirely mediocore and some are quite impressive.
When discussing why most 302 based strokers make less power:
Physics havent changed and what works in one internal combustion engine is likely to work on another similair internal combustion engine. Fuel air and spark don't see the badge on the front.
Funny this comparison of small parts and outdated thinking is what brought me to LS1tech; there is a lot in common w/ SBFs and LS's(more similarities than to a SBC thats for sure). Went and found it but this post eludes to why some SBFs are entirely mediocore and some are quite impressive.
When discussing why most 302 based strokers make less power:
Physics havent changed and what works in one internal combustion engine is likely to work on another similair internal combustion engine. Fuel air and spark don't see the badge on the front.
He is the first one that opened my eyes to heads/cam/intake being too small for cubic inches.
I actually first tried someone else's theory that "smaller parts in the right combination work better" and the motor performed less than ideal.
I have ran a few of Jay's cams; with one in my daily driver that had 239* int. and 251* exh. @ .050. Car had excellent street manners and still had good low end torque..even when some thought that it would be way too radical.
10-14-2011, 06:17 PM
#35
Both Victor and tfs high ports are 240cc. I agree that most that build Ford engines use small h/c/i and then wonder why they don't make any power. I am building a motor now and I can say that it won't be built with afr 165's, lol.
10-14-2011, 06:50 PM
#36
From what I've seen, F1s like big boost numbers. They aren't very strong in low boost combos, seems they really like to get spinning. However, for 23 psi, where the blower likes to be, the numbers just don't impress me, neither did how hard (or not) it ran. He shoulda gone turbo...
Come on, you've been around long enough to know I'm no nutswinger...
Come on, you've been around long enough to know I'm no nutswinger...
10-15-2011, 05:15 AM
#38
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With the TFS 260 i was just making an example not quoting for a parts book.
All i was trying to say is that yes in fact some people use small parts on big displacment builds and it gets them no where..
and after i have made that comment everyone kind of took it from there and i cant keep up but all i know is that sometimes bigger is better and more often than not its always about the right combiniation..
i will also add this, ive seen more SBF builds done on a very small budget than i have lsx builds..
no one can tell me that building a SBF 427 stroker that will make 500whp will cost more than a ls1 stroked making 500whp, ive done the parts search myself for each build..
Point is you get what you pay for and both motors are equally different and equally amazing in there own way.. i think everyone can agree to that.
All i was trying to say is that yes in fact some people use small parts on big displacment builds and it gets them no where..
and after i have made that comment everyone kind of took it from there and i cant keep up but all i know is that sometimes bigger is better and more often than not its always about the right combiniation..
i will also add this, ive seen more SBF builds done on a very small budget than i have lsx builds..
no one can tell me that building a SBF 427 stroker that will make 500whp will cost more than a ls1 stroked making 500whp, ive done the parts search myself for each build..
Point is you get what you pay for and both motors are equally different and equally amazing in there own way.. i think everyone can agree to that.
