C6 z06 versus two new 2014 Dodge Vipers
06-12-2013, 09:36 AM
#22
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I see your point but how ever couldn't they just order the parts and have a Hennessy tune it? I was still under the oppression that they still have the rights to tune the Vipers? I could be wrong so just asking.
06-12-2013, 09:49 AM
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BUT, both options are VERY $$$$$$$
06-12-2013, 09:52 AM
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No, there is no ability to get into the factory ECU to actually modify what you are doing to the engine. All you could really do is a full standalone or what some of the UGR cars do, which is a piggy back system that would involve adding a motec or something similar to the system to take over whenever a car gets into boost, etc.
BUT, both options are VERY $$$$$$$
BUT, both options are VERY $$$$$$$
06-12-2013, 10:12 AM
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There are TT Gen IV Viper's producing north of 1000whp. They use aftermarket controllers like the Motec ECU.
06-12-2013, 10:32 AM
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After 2008 you need a stand alone computer and harness which will be close to 10-15k by the time is all said and done (installed, wired and tuned).
Not as easy as bolting on a AEM made for the Gen 2s (96-2002)- $2800 and it is plug and play.
Not as easy as bolting on a AEM made for the Gen 2s (96-2002)- $2800 and it is plug and play.
06-12-2013, 10:41 AM
#29
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I saw a brand new viper in person a month or so ago. I thought it looked a little cheap and toyish on the exterior. Interior was very nice though. The one I saw was blue with white stripes and those ugly stock wheels.
Overall the car doesn't look too bad. The front end is the worst to me. Just not my cup of tea but maybe they will grow on me?
Overall the car doesn't look too bad. The front end is the worst to me. Just not my cup of tea but maybe they will grow on me?
06-12-2013, 11:20 AM
#31
Vipers previous to that? Sure, those can be tuned.
Like has already been mentioned, nothing is impossible, and you can use a Motec or Pectel as a piggyback that runs the engine while the stock computer handles everything else. '08+ Vipers have the problem that everything has to communicate with everything else, so you can't just rip out the old stuff and install a standalone...it is much more complicated than that, hence the $10k-$20k price tag, depending on options.
06-12-2013, 11:26 AM
#32
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Hennessy can't do ****...they'll make you believe they can, and even say they can, but in reality, they have no ability to crack the rolling encryption that started back in 2008.
Vipers previous to that? Sure, those can be tuned.
Like has already been mentioned, nothing is impossible, and you can use a Motec or Pectel as a piggyback that runs the engine while the stock computer handles everything else. '08+ Vipers have the problem that everything has to communicate with everything else, so you can't just rip out the old stuff and install a standalone...it is much more complicated than that, hence the $10k-$20k price tag, depending on options.
Vipers previous to that? Sure, those can be tuned.
Like has already been mentioned, nothing is impossible, and you can use a Motec or Pectel as a piggyback that runs the engine while the stock computer handles everything else. '08+ Vipers have the problem that everything has to communicate with everything else, so you can't just rip out the old stuff and install a standalone...it is much more complicated than that, hence the $10k-$20k price tag, depending on options.
06-12-2013, 12:14 PM
#33
ok so pretty much the smart thing to do is get a Viper thats 07 and below and build it? still regardless a 8.4L V10 is gonna be beast when its built properly and tuned properly. now my next question is in the older vipers when they had the forged internals are those just as good as the new forged internals that are made today? or would you recommend changing them out for the updated forged internals? because if i ever get a Viper I want to get one when they came with forged internals that way I can just get a turbo or S/C and call it a day.
Vipers built after 1999 did not come with forged internals, but they did bring forged internals back for the 2013 model year. From what I've seen, the older forged motors are stout, but everything has a breaking point.
Tony (Nine Ball) has an '06 coupe that he installed a Paxton on, but wasn't really impressed with how it ran due to how under driven the blower was on the stock motor setup (they can handle about 650 RWHP reliably, but it is a very peaky 650 RWHP). He pulled the motor, had it built, and turned up the wick to about 950 RWHP + a shot of nitrous on top of that. From what I've seen, that setup has been reliable, and gave him a 200+ MPH run in a standing mile.
It generally takes a lot more work an money to make a 2000+ Viper really fast, but it can be done. About the most you can expect out of a Gen IV is 630 RWHP, and that takes headers, ported intake manifold, ported heads, and a Mopar off-road PCM. Some people have also had some luck with small shots of nitrous. Can't do a cam swap since you can't tune them, and that will be the same problem with the Gen V Vipers.
06-12-2013, 12:20 PM
#34
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96-99 Stock motors can make 900-1000 rwhp on pump gas and water/meth all day long and be happy. Valve springs, pushrods and roller rockers highly recommended.
That is all you need motor wise.
That is all you need motor wise.
06-12-2013, 01:18 PM
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Oh I know. I'm just implying that the builds for Gen IV+ Vipers are few and far between. You can do a simple tune H/C/I like you would on a Z06 or something like that.
06-12-2013, 02:23 PM
#36
There were no '07 Vipers...there was a one year hiatus between 2006 and 2008 where they revamped the Gen III (2003-2006) Vipers which became the Gen IV (2008-2010) - different motor with exhaust only variable valve timing, 8.4L vs. 8.3L, etc. The only changes they made to the motor for 2013 was to add forged pistons, a slighly larger intake lobe on the cam (still variable valve timing), and a composite intake manifold.
Vipers built after 1999 did not come with forged internals, but they did bring forged internals back for the 2013 model year. From what I've seen, the older forged motors are stout, but everything has a breaking point.
Tony (Nine Ball) has an '06 coupe that he installed a Paxton on, but wasn't really impressed with how it ran due to how under driven the blower was on the stock motor setup (they can handle about 650 RWHP reliably, but it is a very peaky 650 RWHP). He pulled the motor, had it built, and turned up the wick to about 950 RWHP + a shot of nitrous on top of that. From what I've seen, that setup has been reliable, and gave him a 200+ MPH run in a standing mile.
It generally takes a lot more work an money to make a 2000+ Viper really fast, but it can be done. About the most you can expect out of a Gen IV is 630 RWHP, and that takes headers, ported intake manifold, ported heads, and a Mopar off-road PCM. Some people have also had some luck with small shots of nitrous. Can't do a cam swap since you can't tune them, and that will be the same problem with the Gen V Vipers.
Vipers built after 1999 did not come with forged internals, but they did bring forged internals back for the 2013 model year. From what I've seen, the older forged motors are stout, but everything has a breaking point.
Tony (Nine Ball) has an '06 coupe that he installed a Paxton on, but wasn't really impressed with how it ran due to how under driven the blower was on the stock motor setup (they can handle about 650 RWHP reliably, but it is a very peaky 650 RWHP). He pulled the motor, had it built, and turned up the wick to about 950 RWHP + a shot of nitrous on top of that. From what I've seen, that setup has been reliable, and gave him a 200+ MPH run in a standing mile.
It generally takes a lot more work an money to make a 2000+ Viper really fast, but it can be done. About the most you can expect out of a Gen IV is 630 RWHP, and that takes headers, ported intake manifold, ported heads, and a Mopar off-road PCM. Some people have also had some luck with small shots of nitrous. Can't do a cam swap since you can't tune them, and that will be the same problem with the Gen V Vipers.
06-12-2013, 11:12 PM
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There were no '07 Vipers...there was a one year hiatus between 2006 and 2008 where they revamped the Gen III (2003-2006) Vipers which became the Gen IV (2008-2010) - different motor with exhaust only variable valve timing, 8.4L vs. 8.3L, etc. The only changes they made to the motor for 2013 was to add forged pistons, a slighly larger intake lobe on the cam (still variable valve timing), and a composite intake manifold.
Vipers built after 1999 did not come with forged internals, but they did bring forged internals back for the 2013 model year. From what I've seen, the older forged motors are stout, but everything has a breaking point.
Tony (Nine Ball) has an '06 coupe that he installed a Paxton on, but wasn't really impressed with how it ran due to how under driven the blower was on the stock motor setup (they can handle about 650 RWHP reliably, but it is a very peaky 650 RWHP). He pulled the motor, had it built, and turned up the wick to about 950 RWHP + a shot of nitrous on top of that. From what I've seen, that setup has been reliable, and gave him a 200+ MPH run in a standing mile.
It generally takes a lot more work an money to make a 2000+ Viper really fast, but it can be done. About the most you can expect out of a Gen IV is 630 RWHP, and that takes headers, ported intake manifold, ported heads, and a Mopar off-road PCM. Some people have also had some luck with small shots of nitrous. Can't do a cam swap since you can't tune them, and that will be the same problem with the Gen V Vipers.
Vipers built after 1999 did not come with forged internals, but they did bring forged internals back for the 2013 model year. From what I've seen, the older forged motors are stout, but everything has a breaking point.
Tony (Nine Ball) has an '06 coupe that he installed a Paxton on, but wasn't really impressed with how it ran due to how under driven the blower was on the stock motor setup (they can handle about 650 RWHP reliably, but it is a very peaky 650 RWHP). He pulled the motor, had it built, and turned up the wick to about 950 RWHP + a shot of nitrous on top of that. From what I've seen, that setup has been reliable, and gave him a 200+ MPH run in a standing mile.
It generally takes a lot more work an money to make a 2000+ Viper really fast, but it can be done. About the most you can expect out of a Gen IV is 630 RWHP, and that takes headers, ported intake manifold, ported heads, and a Mopar off-road PCM. Some people have also had some luck with small shots of nitrous. Can't do a cam swap since you can't tune them, and that will be the same problem with the Gen V Vipers.