FLYNLO

Guess who won last year's Vette/Viper/Supra shootout? An LS1 powered vette. Yep, the mighty Supra went down(although by a very small margin)to an MTI422 with Nitrous. Supras are definitely a bad ride when set up properly. But don't think for a minute that those things aren't temperamental at those boost levels. Talk to anyone that owns one and they are constantly jackin' with something or not getting the boost they want or, etc. Another urban legend is that these things are all over the place. That stupid *** movie and some of the Supra worshippers on the internet make it sound like there are thousands of these things in every city just waiting to stomp V8s. Yeah, they are out there, but they are few and far between. I think they only made something like 3000 total(I maybe wrong on this) of the TTs and you have to figure some attrition and a good majority are not even modded. Another thing is that the Supra's strong point is on the highway.....period. It will drag but the highway it will spank because of the nature of the power delivery(not as good for drag racing). And a highly boosted Supra on a road race track would be near suicide....although I am sure there are folks out there doing it(I'll take my ZO6 anyday). Generally it takes about 100 more RWHP on a Supra or a modded 03 Cobra to match the Performance of a Vette. This is strictly due to gearing, weight, aerodynamics, and tires.
BTW, the next shootout is in March or April in San Antonio I believe. The Supra Camp vows revenge and claims that they will not loose. Should be great fun for all!!!!!!!!!

FYRARMS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FLYNLO:
<strong> Guess who won last year's Vette/Viper/Supra shootout? An LS1 powered vette. Yep, the mighty Supra went down(although by a very small margin)to an MTI422 with Nitrous.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct. The C5 was owned by SW. SW actually went faster AND quicker in his SUPRA at the same event. However, he missed a shift in the semi-finals, so he raced the C5 for the win. We think the C5 owners paid him to do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Another urban legend is that these things are all over the place.

I think they only made something like 3000 total(I maybe wrong on this) of the TTs and you have to figure some attrition and a good majority are not even modded.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct again, kind of. Between 1993-1998, only about 7000 turbo models made it in to the states. It is estimated that less than 3000 are modded at all, and maybe 300 are serious monsters. Present party included...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Generally it takes about 100 more RWHP on a Supra or a modded 03 Cobra to match the Performance of a Vette. This is strictly due to gearing, weight, aerodynamics, and tires.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, it is due more to the characteristics of a forced induction small-displacement engine with the Supra. The Supra's are very aerodynamic, and weigh around 3500#.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>BTW, the next shootout is in March or April in San Antonio I believe. The Supra Camp vows revenge and claims that they will not loose. Should be great fun for all!!!!!!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is the weekend of March 28-30. It will definitely be crazy. I am one of the sponsors of the dyno competition, and know for a fact that the SVS Twin-Turbo Viper is coming down from IL for some fun. We are bringing 3 Supras from Chicago that have already gone 9's to the event. The 9's were run 2 years ago, so they should be animals this year. It will definitely take a low-9 or high-8 second ET to take the crown this year. Everyone is looking forward to the fun...

Smok'n Red American Muscle

I don't understand why people try to make these asian cars fast. They are designed for good gas milage and to be cheap, not fast.

T/A <img border="0" alt="[shoot]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> Ricers

bigoneZ28

Not to flame, but do you realise that a 5700 cc (5.7 liter)V-8 only making 345 hp is just as funny to the "LS1 Tech" level guys in Japan with 500 hp grocery getter Supras/Skylines. The cars that are imported into the States are detuned. I love all high performance cars no matter where manufactured and having said that, I agree that the <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> LS1 F-body has to be one of the all time best bang for the buck deals.

JF WS6

I don't think anyone in Japan that has a Skyline or Supra would laugh at a NATURALLY ASPIRATED engine that has 350-500 HP. Lets see what the Skyline motor/Supra motor has in it with the turbo's stripped off.

Consequently, if you were to build a bottom end as tough as these straight 6's out of a LS1 with 8:1 compression, then install the same giant turbo(s) on it and run 20+lbs. of boost - let's see how the LS1 would do.

bigoneZ28

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JF WS6:
<strong> I don't think anyone in Japan that has a Skyline or Supra would laugh at a NATURALLY ASPIRATED engine that has 350-500 HP. Lets see what the Skyline motor/Supra motor has in it with the turbo's stripped off.

Consequently, if you were to build a bottom end as tough as these straight 6's out of a LS1 with 8:1 compression, then install the same giant turbo(s) on it and run 20+lbs. of boost - let's see how the LS1 would do. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why not reduce LS1's displacement to 3.0 liters and see what that does to output <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Seriously, I think any true performance enthusiast should be able to appreciate alternate methods/engines/combos to reach one's goal. I like the Supras/Skylines but what they do not offer is the BANG!!! for the buck of the LS1. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
That 8.1 cr with 20lbs boost LS1 would be <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

JF WS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by bigoneZ28:
<strong> Why not reduce LS1's displacement to 3.0 liters and see what that does to output</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, if somehow you were even able to reduce the LS1 displacement to 3.0 liters, or even increase a supra engine to 5.7 liters the LS1 would still make more power. 8 cylinders vs. 6 cylinders = 8 cylinders wins. No matter what you did, as long as you made the same identical mods to the LS1 that you did to the Supra motor it would always make more power because of the extra 2 cylinders.

bigoneZ28

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

pony killer

JF you are way off base with the 6 not being able to prroduce the power of a 8 because locomotives only have 6 cylinders and they produce way more power than are ls1's do, so that dosent even factor in since thier pistons are about 17-18 inches bore diameter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

JF WS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by pony killer:
<strong> JF you are way off base with the 6 not being able to prroduce the power of a 8 because locomotives only have 6 cylinders and they produce way more power than are ls1's do, so that dosent even factor in since thier pistons are about 17-18 inches bore diameter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahem..... I did NOT say anywhere, that a 6 will never be able to produce the power of a 8. I was talking liter to liter. A 5.7 liter V8 vs. a 5.7 straight 6. You can't possibly tell me the 5.7 liter 6 will make the same power as the 8 cylinder liter to liter. No way.

Your locomotive example isn't even relative here-I'm sure a train engine that's a 6 puts out mad horsepower, but keep in mind it's HUGE. If you were to make a V8 with the EXACT same displacement as the locomotive 6, the 8 would be more powerful. That's my point.

FLYNLO

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by pony killer:
<strong> JF you are way off base with the 6 not being able to prroduce the power of a 8 because locomotives only have 6 cylinders and they produce way more power than are ls1's do, so that dosent even factor in since thier pistons are about 17-18 inches bore diameter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh man, look out. We have introduced locomotives into the debate now. Just a little FYI, locomotives are diesel electric so there really is no comparison. And if you wanna talk torque, an electric motor has a perfectly flat torque curve from 0 rpms to infinity. For whatever that is worth.

FLYNLO

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FYRARMS:
<strong> [QUOTE]Originally posted by FLYNLO:
[qb] Guess who won last year's Vette/Viper/Supra shootout? An LS1 powered vette. Yep, the mighty Supra went down(although by a very small margin)to an MTI422 with Nitrous.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct. The C5 was owned by SW. SW actually went faster AND quicker in his SUPRA at the same event. However, he missed a shift in the semi-finals, so he raced the C5 for the win. We think the C5 owners paid him to do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

SW was also faced with the dilemna of having to race himself in the finals.....so who knows why he lost in the semis in his Surpa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . If I am not mistaken, the car he beat in the finals was one of his former cars that he had sold to a friend. SW definitely knows how to put a car together to make it fast.....I think the dude can drive also. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

NHRATA01

iTrader: (10)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JF WS6:
<strong> Ahem..... I did NOT say anywhere, that a 6 will never be able to produce the power of a 8. I was talking liter to liter. A 5.7 liter V8 vs. a 5.7 straight 6. You can't possibly tell me the 5.7 liter 6 will make the same power as the 8 cylinder liter to liter. No way.

Your locomotive example isn't even relative here-I'm sure a train engine that's a 6 puts out mad horsepower, but keep in mind it's HUGE. If you were to make a V8 with the EXACT same displacement as the locomotive 6, the 8 would be more powerful. That's my point. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've never really thought # of cylinders had that much effect, compared to displacement. Here, compare the 4.2 I6 in the blazer, 270hp, to the 4.6 Northstar V8, 275hp or 300hp. Give the 4.2 .4 more L of displacement and I bet it would exceed the 300hp layed down by the Caddie. I would tend to say displacement, rather than cylinder count, has a greater effect on HP. That is, similar displacement 6 and 8 cylinder engines would make similar power.

2001bird

# of cylinders has no real basis when talking about horepower at our level. At a Formula 1 level yes, they all run V-10 because thats where they acheive their most favorable bore to stoke ratio with there limited displasement.