Couple of Kills Gran National, Sprayed GT
10-29-2005, 12:28 PM
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Couple of Kills Gran National, Sprayed GT Had a couple of races this week pretty interesting since I got the car just about a week ago. Mods are in the sig.
First race was a 2002 Mustang GT from what I know his mods were the following 125 wet shot, long tubes, x pipe, dumps, tb, cai, 4.30 gears, and it was an automatic with some suspension. He was also on some BFG D/R's I saw him run earlier that night a 8.11 in the 1/8th not too bad.
I was on just 315 GSD3's so he had an advantage on me from a dig but I prolly had a little more power. So we start off. Flagger drops his arms and he sleeps at the line a bit so I get the hole shot on him. Pull about half a car out of the hole I spin for a few feet but actually hook pretty good. First gear I slowly start pulling away about a full car by the end of 1st. Boom I hit 2nd and lose a little traction then I hook and see him slowly falling back about 3 cars by the time I hit 3rd. In 3rd it was over for the stang timefor the LS1 to kick in good. I shut it down at about the 1/8th mile mark. It was a pretty fast stang defiantely. I was impressed by it especially for a 2v motor.
Next race was vs a Gran National from what I know his mod's are upgraded turbo PTE SCM-61 he said set at 16 psi, he had an upgraded intercooler, full exhaust, some kind of laptop with tuning software, and not aware of his other mods. He also didn't have great tires on there.
We go from a dig I get the hole shot he spins quite a bit and I get about a car on him from the holeshot. Then I hit 2nd and pull on him a hard maybe 2-3 cars and keep steadily pulling the GN. I hit 3rd and once again its over and I start leaving him. I shut down with about 4-5 cars on him. I was really expecting more from this car? Maybe he wasn't tuned he said he had no #'s yet.
First race was a 2002 Mustang GT from what I know his mods were the following 125 wet shot, long tubes, x pipe, dumps, tb, cai, 4.30 gears, and it was an automatic with some suspension. He was also on some BFG D/R's I saw him run earlier that night a 8.11 in the 1/8th not too bad.
I was on just 315 GSD3's so he had an advantage on me from a dig but I prolly had a little more power. So we start off. Flagger drops his arms and he sleeps at the line a bit so I get the hole shot on him. Pull about half a car out of the hole I spin for a few feet but actually hook pretty good. First gear I slowly start pulling away about a full car by the end of 1st. Boom I hit 2nd and lose a little traction then I hook and see him slowly falling back about 3 cars by the time I hit 3rd. In 3rd it was over for the stang timefor the LS1 to kick in good. I shut it down at about the 1/8th mile mark. It was a pretty fast stang defiantely. I was impressed by it especially for a 2v motor.
Next race was vs a Gran National from what I know his mod's are upgraded turbo PTE SCM-61 he said set at 16 psi, he had an upgraded intercooler, full exhaust, some kind of laptop with tuning software, and not aware of his other mods. He also didn't have great tires on there.
We go from a dig I get the hole shot he spins quite a bit and I get about a car on him from the holeshot. Then I hit 2nd and pull on him a hard maybe 2-3 cars and keep steadily pulling the GN. I hit 3rd and once again its over and I start leaving him. I shut down with about 4-5 cars on him. I was really expecting more from this car? Maybe he wasn't tuned he said he had no #'s yet.
10-29-2005, 05:30 PM
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Awesome kills!
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool.
Not too sure about how fast a Grand National should be with those mods, but I know they usually run like high 13's stock, so it isn't too suprising that you beat him, especially if he was on crap tires.
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool.
Not too sure about how fast a Grand National should be with those mods, but I know they usually run like high 13's stock, so it isn't too suprising that you beat him, especially if he was on crap tires.
10-29-2005, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
Awesome kills!
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool.
Not too sure about how fast a Grand National should be with those mods, but I know they usually run like high 13's stock, so it isn't too suprising that you beat him, especially if he was on crap tires.
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool.
Not too sure about how fast a Grand National should be with those mods, but I know they usually run like high 13's stock, so it isn't too suprising that you beat him, especially if he was on crap tires.
10-30-2005, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
Awesome kills!
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool. ..
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool. ..
I doubt you would have been so unimpressed had you raced that GT.It sounds like boostedrs outdrove him, on top of having a bit more power. The Stang owner should have gone with a high stall converter instead of just gears.
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10-30-2005, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
Awesome kills!
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool..
Those 2 valve 4.6 motors really aren't usually too impressive at all. It's too bad too, cause the 2001+ GT's look real cool..
I think with a better convertor and better driving the stang would be faster.Same setup a good friends is running high 11's.
But good kills.
10-30-2005, 06:45 AM
#9
"I doubt you would have been so unimpressed had you raced that GT."
It was stated that the stang ran an 8.1 1/8 mile. I have also run an 8.1 1/8 mile with just bolt-ons.
Let me rephrase my statement though. 4.6 liter 2 valve motors aren't usually too impressive unless that have some kind of power adder.
Even then, they might beat me, but they still don't seem to make alot of power for what they have done. I have one friend with a Saleen with a Vortech blower, 13 psi and he only made 403 rwhp, and another friend with a Saleen with twin turbos (tons of other mods), 9-10 psi making 437 rwhp. Even an LT1 will make almost 400 rwhp with about 8 psi of boost from a supercharger.
Once again, not saying the sheer numbers aren't good, but what did it take to get them?
It was stated that the stang ran an 8.1 1/8 mile. I have also run an 8.1 1/8 mile with just bolt-ons.
Let me rephrase my statement though. 4.6 liter 2 valve motors aren't usually too impressive unless that have some kind of power adder.
Even then, they might beat me, but they still don't seem to make alot of power for what they have done. I have one friend with a Saleen with a Vortech blower, 13 psi and he only made 403 rwhp, and another friend with a Saleen with twin turbos (tons of other mods), 9-10 psi making 437 rwhp. Even an LT1 will make almost 400 rwhp with about 8 psi of boost from a supercharger.
Once again, not saying the sheer numbers aren't good, but what did it take to get them?
Last edited by ScreaminRedZ; 10-30-2005 at 06:50 AM.
10-30-2005, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
"I doubt you would have been so unimpressed had you raced that GT."
It was stated that the stang ran an 8.1 1/8 mile. I have also run an 8.1 1/8 mile with just bolt-ons.
Let me rephrase my statement though. 4.6 liter 2 valve motors aren't usually too impressive unless that have some kind of power adder.
Even then, they might beat me, but they still don't seem to make alot of power for what they have done. I have one friend with a Saleen with a Vortech blower, 13 psi and he only made 403 rwhp, and another friend with a Saleen with twin turbos (tons of other mods), 9-10 psi making 437 rwhp. Even an LT1 will make almost 400 rwhp with about 8 psi of boost from a supercharger.
Once again, not saying the sheer numbers aren't good, but what did it take to get them?
It was stated that the stang ran an 8.1 1/8 mile. I have also run an 8.1 1/8 mile with just bolt-ons.
Let me rephrase my statement though. 4.6 liter 2 valve motors aren't usually too impressive unless that have some kind of power adder.
Even then, they might beat me, but they still don't seem to make alot of power for what they have done. I have one friend with a Saleen with a Vortech blower, 13 psi and he only made 403 rwhp, and another friend with a Saleen with twin turbos (tons of other mods), 9-10 psi making 437 rwhp. Even an LT1 will make almost 400 rwhp with about 8 psi of boost from a supercharger.
Once again, not saying the sheer numbers aren't good, but what did it take to get them?
But it really doesnt matter if its bolton/power adder etc.As long as its a win.Thats all that matters.
Personally, i like stacking the deck
10-30-2005, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Mobile
I thought GN's were 15's stock, but then easily modded into the 13's.
The 86-87 intercooled ones are generally high 13's stock. Get some good tires and a few little mods and hang on
10-31-2005, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
... I have one friend with a Saleen with a Vortech blower, 13 psi and he only made 403 rwhp .......Even an LT1 will make almost 400 rwhp with about 8 psi of boost from a supercharger. ...
Last edited by 00GTBlown; 10-31-2005 at 08:30 PM.
10-31-2005, 08:35 PM
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Sounds like the GN was not tuned right and not running near enough boost. should bave been running 27#'s. With that Turbo he would definitly take you if running right. Good runs though, run what you brung and you definitly did.
10-31-2005, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RUSH
Sounds like the GN was not tuned right and not running near enough boost. should bave been running 27#'s. With that Turbo he would definitly take you if running right. Good runs though, run what you brung and you definitly did.
Yeah, you aren't hitting 27#s with that turbo on pump gas lol
10-31-2005, 08:49 PM
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Honestly, I'm not sure. Could an LS1 even run that much boost with pump gas? My friend never told me that his stang was actually on pump gas with that much boost, but I figure he lowered the boost for a reason. I know that LS1's do make in the 450-460 range with 7-8 lbs of boost and pump gas.
10-31-2005, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RUSH
Sounds like the GN was not tuned right and not running near enough boost. should bave been running 27#'s. With that Turbo he would definitly take you if running right. Good runs though, run what you brung and you definitly did.
It is extremely rare to be able to run 27 psi on a stock bottom end in a gn.
11-01-2005, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreaminRedZ
Honestly, I'm not sure. Could an LS1 even run that much boost with pump gas? My friend never told me that his stang was actually on pump gas with that much boost, but I figure he lowered the boost for a reason. ..
11-01-2005, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 00GTBlown
Stangs can run 13 and more psi on pump gas. If an LS1 cannot run that much on pump gas then what's the point of the comparison based on psi? And your 'friend' needs to concern himself with more than just psi if he wants more output.
Bob @ EPP was running 15psi on a I believe stock bottom end with 670rwhp, he did eventually crack a piston.
But and I know you have some serious power. However most FI guys recommend only 8-10psi STOCK for the 4.6 2v, as detonation will become a problem. That and the SOHC really need forged internals on anything over 420rwhp as a rule that is.
Remember the 4.6 has a lower static CR than the Ls1 so you can run more inital boost. However the effective CR of both engines probably ends up being quite similar.
BTW - Out of curiosity what do you consider to be pump petrol?
11-01-2005, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
well whats the point in comparisons at all, I mean if they're not the same then there will always be a variance. If they are 100% the same, they would be the same so no need for a comparison.
Bob @ EPP was running 15psi on a I believe stock bottom end with 670rwhp, he did eventually crack a piston.
But and I know you have some serious power. However most FI guys recommend only 8-10psi STOCK for the 4.6 2v, as detonation will become a problem. That and the SOHC really need forged internals on anything over 420rwhp as a rule that is.
Remember the 4.6 has a lower static CR than the Ls1 so you can run more inital boost. However the effective CR of both engines probably ends up being quite similar.
BTW - Out of curiosity what do you consider to be pump petrol?
Bob @ EPP was running 15psi on a I believe stock bottom end with 670rwhp, he did eventually crack a piston.
But and I know you have some serious power. However most FI guys recommend only 8-10psi STOCK for the 4.6 2v, as detonation will become a problem. That and the SOHC really need forged internals on anything over 420rwhp as a rule that is.
Remember the 4.6 has a lower static CR than the Ls1 so you can run more inital boost. However the effective CR of both engines probably ends up being quite similar.
BTW - Out of curiosity what do you consider to be pump petrol?
Psi is one of those things that does not make for a direct comparison on different engines and different blowers. Psi is a measurement of restriction of airflow into the engine. Different blowers have different levels of airflow which means one blower can have more airflow than another at the same psi on the same engine. For example a Kenne Bell S/C will flow more air at 9psi than a Vortech, but the Vortech can run more psi on pump gas safely, therefore a comparison based on psi is not very useful.
I am aware of the higher compression ratio of the LS1 which is why I asked the question the way I did. I'm not aware of anyone running 15 (actual) psi on pump gas on a stock LS1 longblock. I would assume the 670 rwhp LS1 you spoke of had some internal engine mods such as heads/cam, or it was not running pump gas. 91-94 octane is what is considered pump gas for blown cars.
I've seen many forced induction 4.6 2v combinations so I have a pretty good idea of the limits. 12 psi is as much as I've seen non-intercooled for what I consider safe. I know of several examples of guys running 14 and 15 psi intercooled and holding up fine, including drag racing - on pump gas. Some with high flowing heads/cams can run a small pulley and get substantially more HP but will see less actual psi. Lower psi is safer in terms of the likelihood of detonation. I mention this because some think of psi based on the pulley size and not the actual measured psi.
As far as what people have said regarding the limits of hp on a stock 4.6 2v shortlbock, I've seen several cars with stock shortblocks running high 400's up to 540 rwhp and holding up. One of these was a well known project car for MM&FF magazine see it here. It registered 12psi and ran 126mph in the quarter at full weight (3550 lbs). When they finally removed the stock shortblock and replaced it with a built one it looked healthy with no damage.
Last edited by 00GTBlown; 11-01-2005 at 12:33 PM.